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> Wisdom is not the sum of success, it is the sum of failure That doesn't make any sense. Failing is not implicitly useful and (while we are on the topic of mo

> Wisdom is not the sum of success, it is the sum of failure That doesn't make any sense. Failing is not implicitly useful and (while we are on the topic of morality) must not be held up as a goal.

ianai 8y ago
Failure is not what happened in any of those examples. A failure is several orders of magnitude below a Great Recession or Great Depression.
zamalek 8y ago
> failure [...] morality They were simultaneously different points and part of the same point in my argument. Separately, failure is a good thing - as any CEO would tell you. Together, they are horrific. It's very complicated, which is a far cry from "idiotic" as the article portrays.
- blueprint 8y ago
  Failure is a good thing? By itself? What a strange fantasy.
paulcole 8y ago
Succeeding isn’t implicitly useful either. Succeeding mustn’t be held up as a goal or you end up with Uber.
- blueprint 8y ago
  We were talking about wisdom.
vertexFarm 8y ago
Ha. You are in for some rough lessons my friend.
- blueprint 8y ago
  Go ahead and say what they are if you know them. I doubt you will be able to say anything. Instead of being silent, you should have the courage to admit you don't actually know what you're talking about and don't have much if anything to tell me.
  - blueprint 8y ago
    More downvotes please. The weakness of your argument and the fact all you can do is repress and attempt to censor my reply (because you can't understand it) needs to be made more obvious! Best prevent other people from finding out about what I said and attempt to socially pressure them into not holding such an opinion because then they wouldn't be able to be fooled by you anymore and even you might have to change. And that's just too scary. I can answer every critique you throw at me about this topic. Yet no one here could reply to even one of my responses. You're laughable in your denial, ignorance, and weak-mindedness.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      vertexfarm did not downvote you. It's not possible to downvote replies to your own comments.
      - blueprint 8y ago
        Yes, I know. That much was already clear by the fact more than one downvote was received. I'm addressing a group of individuals whose way of thinking is so homogeneous they may as well have lost their individual identities.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - vertexFarm 8y ago
    Except when you are being taught by another person, all new knowledge comes from your own observation, trial and error. When you are learning from another person you are learning about the aggregate of incremental failures that they made, finally leading up to a success. Very rarely do things totally succeed on a first attempt. How can you possibly say failure can't be useful? How do you iterate your plans and designs? I don't think you appreciate how knowledge works. Your weird demonization of failure (including it somehow being a moral issue?) won't force success, it's just going to stop you from realistically evaluating your goals. Aside from that explanation, I'm not dying to debate you or list exhaustive examples or whatever because you're belligerent and arrogant. People like you can't be convinced, you have to go through it yourselves several times to figure it out, if ever.
SuoDuanDao 8y ago
I would say failure by definition cannot be held up as a goal. The upside of failure is that it teaches more reliable lessons than success, there's no survivorship bias at play when learning from failures like there is with success. Jack Ma's lengthy interview at Davos this year touches on the subject if you'd like to see that perspective defended by someone with authority.
- blueprint 8y ago
  > I would say failure by definition cannot be held up as a goal. It depends on who is doing it. Maybe you understand what you said, but others have an interest in not understanding it because they have an obstacle in themselves. > The upside of failure is that it teaches more reliable lessons than success, there's no survivorship bias at play when learning from failures like there is with success. I would like to improve your abilities or otherwise open up your wisdom. Any "upside of failure" is by definition a success. Therefore people's statements about success and failure, as if the nature of the result can be captured by a singular datapoint, are self-contradictory, and meaningful only as a reflection of the individual's limitation of understanding. > if you'd like to see that perspective defended by someone with authority. We're talking about wisdom here, so the only authority is a perfectly enlightened being, not an ordinary human being who has knowledge but no way to confirm the degree of exactness of their own ability to make confirmations. No one without enlightenment perceives the causes of why things happen to them. If you want to convince me someone is an authority on how a good and a bad thing happens then I will need to see any proof at all they realize the principle by which the world operates. Otherwise you should realize that's merely their own ideas, of which some percentage may be correct, despite their inability to confirm it.

> Wisdom is not the sum of success, it is the sum of failure That doesn't make any sense. Failing is not implicitly useful and (while we are on the topic of morality) must not be held up as a goal.

ianai 8y ago

Failure is not what happened in any of those examples. A failure is several orders of magnitude below a Great Recession or Great Depression.

zamalek 8y ago

> failure [...] morality They were simultaneously different points and part of the same point in my argument. Separately, failure is a good thing - as any CEO would tell you. Together, they are horrific. It's very complicated, which is a far cry from "idiotic" as the article portrays.

blueprint 8y ago
Failure is a good thing? By itself? What a strange fantasy.

paulcole 8y ago

Succeeding isn’t implicitly useful either. Succeeding mustn’t be held up as a goal or you end up with Uber.

blueprint 8y ago
We were talking about wisdom.

vertexFarm 8y ago

Ha. You are in for some rough lessons my friend.

blueprint 8y ago
Go ahead and say what they are if you know them. I doubt you will be able to say anything. Instead of being silent, you should have the courage to admit you don't actually know what you're talking about and don't have much if anything to tell me.
- blueprint 8y ago
  More downvotes please. The weakness of your argument and the fact all you can do is repress and attempt to censor my reply (because you can't understand it) needs to be made more obvious! Best prevent other people from finding out about what I said and attempt to socially pressure them into not holding such an opinion because then they wouldn't be able to be fooled by you anymore and even you might have to change. And that's just too scary. I can answer every critique you throw at me about this topic. Yet no one here could reply to even one of my responses. You're laughable in your denial, ignorance, and weak-mindedness.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    vertexfarm did not downvote you. It's not possible to downvote replies to your own comments.
    - blueprint 8y ago
      Yes, I know. That much was already clear by the fact more than one downvote was received. I'm addressing a group of individuals whose way of thinking is so homogeneous they may as well have lost their individual identities.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- vertexFarm 8y ago
  Except when you are being taught by another person, all new knowledge comes from your own observation, trial and error. When you are learning from another person you are learning about the aggregate of incremental failures that they made, finally leading up to a success. Very rarely do things totally succeed on a first attempt. How can you possibly say failure can't be useful? How do you iterate your plans and designs? I don't think you appreciate how knowledge works. Your weird demonization of failure (including it somehow being a moral issue?) won't force success, it's just going to stop you from realistically evaluating your goals. Aside from that explanation, I'm not dying to debate you or list exhaustive examples or whatever because you're belligerent and arrogant. People like you can't be convinced, you have to go through it yourselves several times to figure it out, if ever.

SuoDuanDao 8y ago

I would say failure by definition cannot be held up as a goal. The upside of failure is that it teaches more reliable lessons than success, there's no survivorship bias at play when learning from failures like there is with success. Jack Ma's lengthy interview at Davos this year touches on the subject if you'd like to see that perspective defended by someone with authority.

blueprint 8y ago
> I would say failure by definition cannot be held up as a goal. It depends on who is doing it. Maybe you understand what you said, but others have an interest in not understanding it because they have an obstacle in themselves. > The upside of failure is that it teaches more reliable lessons than success, there's no survivorship bias at play when learning from failures like there is with success. I would like to improve your abilities or otherwise open up your wisdom. Any "upside of failure" is by definition a success. Therefore people's statements about success and failure, as if the nature of the result can be captured by a singular datapoint, are self-contradictory, and meaningful only as a reflection of the individual's limitation of understanding. > if you'd like to see that perspective defended by someone with authority. We're talking about wisdom here, so the only authority is a perfectly enlightened being, not an ordinary human being who has knowledge but no way to confirm the degree of exactness of their own ability to make confirmations. No one without enlightenment perceives the causes of why things happen to them. If you want to convince me someone is an authority on how a good and a bad thing happens then I will need to see any proof at all they realize the principle by which the world operates. Otherwise you should realize that's merely their own ideas, of which some percentage may be correct, despite their inability to confirm it.