4 ms·

There are plenty of non-proprietary charges around these days. For example go here (and turn off Tesla): https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html ht

There are plenty of non-proprietary charges around these days. For example go here (and turn off Tesla): https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html

mikeash 8y ago
There are still not a lot of good options for long distance travel. Third party fast chargers are usually slow, broken, busy, or badly located.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  This is a weird thing to say. It's simply not true. Search PlugShare for CHAdeMO chargers. There are a lot.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    CHAdeMO is typically 50kW or less, sometimes just 20kW. They’re often unmaintained and left broken for long periods of time. They’re often installed in single units, leaving you vulnerable to being screwed by another user or someone blocking the spot. They’re usually installed in cities rather than along highways. Many important corridors don’t have enough CHAdeMO coverage for a long trip.
    - LeoPanthera 8y ago
      I'd love to see some citations for these claims. Otherwise it just sounds like you have an agenda.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        This comes from personal experience. If you want something more solid, PlugShare will show you. Go look at how they’re distributed, how many chargers are installed at each location, and what kind of speeds people report.
        dangrossman 8y ago
        I'm in a suburb of Philadelphia. I've driven round trip to Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Atlantic City NJ, Baltimore MD on those CHAdeMO chargers. Always 50 kW available, always working, never blocked, for the 3+ years I've driven two different EVs (currently an '18 Leaf). The networks all have realtime status via their apps/websites, there's no guessing about whether a charger is working or in-use. The distribution is fking fantastic: most of them are right at the rest stops on the PA turnpike or I95 and other highways, so you don't even get off the highway to charge. Tesla puts theirs in strip malls, so you have to go through a toll, exit the highway, drive through a town, charge, drive back to the highway, go through the toll again to resume your trip. I work from home with no commute, but I put over 1000 miles a month on my Leaf because it's a great road trip car: a smoother, quieter ride than most luxury cars, that drives itself most of the time with ProPilot, with a nearly 10x larger charging network than Tesla's. Nissan throws in two years of free charging with new Leafs, so for the most part these road trips cost nothing too.
        mikeash 8y ago
        Those aren’t exactly long trips. A long range EV can do those without charging at all. 50kW is still slow. I consider Supercharger speeds to be the bare minimum.
        dangrossman 8y ago
        Those are the longest trips people realistically take by car. Philly to Baltimore is 2-3 hours each way. There are vanishingly few trips taken longer than 2-3 hours from home by car, in your own car. People choose closer destinations, or switch to another mode of transportation like plane or train. I don't care to rehash in-detail conversations we've probably had already on reddit, so I'm not going to dig up the National Household Travel Survey reports, but that's essentially what they show. Not that there's any reason you can't continue on from any of those destinations to another further one; the entire eastern and western coasts are covered by several CHAdeMO chargers for every Supercharger. As for Supercharger speeds, most of the time spent plugged in to one is spent at less than 50 kW, it's really not that different. Especially if we talk about the Model 3, where the standard range battery is going to be similar to the old Model S 60, which would spend less than 5 minutes above 50 kW starting from low SoC on a Supercharger before the charging rate would be no better than any CHAdeMO station. I doubt my 15-20 minute charging stops are much different from yours with your Model S 85 most of the time, except that I have a lot more options for where to charge without an adapter around here, and they're a lot more conveniently located. Most of the population lives around cities along the coasts, and those cities and coasts have excellent CHAdeMO/CCS coverage. Bolts and Leafs are viable for single-car households for a heck of a lot of people, not just Teslas.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Have had the same experience when traveling across the US with my Model S.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
toomuchtodo 8y ago
As mikeash mentions, anything non-Tesla for charging is either slow, broken, or unreliable.
- Reason077 8y ago
  This depends on your location. Norway and the Netherlands have fantastic non-Tesla charging networks. And the UK is improving rapidly with good coverage of reliable chargers in most parts of the country (still no >50kW chargers however).
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    To your point, no >50kW chargers. Superchargers are 100-135kW. I’m in the US, and the charging networks outside of Tesla’s are fragmented and unreliable.
    - bsdpqwz 8y ago
      fastned in the Netherlands has 175kW charging stations (not all of them), and just they announced their first 350kW one: https://fastned.nl/en/blog/post/fastned-onthult-nieuwe-generatie-snellaadstations https://fastned.nl/en/blog/post/fastned-onthult-nieuwe-gener...
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        > And the UK is improving rapidly with good coverage of reliable chargers in most parts of the country (still no >50kW chargers however).

mikeash 8y ago

There are still not a lot of good options for long distance travel. Third party fast chargers are usually slow, broken, busy, or badly located.

LeoPanthera 8y ago
This is a weird thing to say. It's simply not true. Search PlugShare for CHAdeMO chargers. There are a lot.
- mikeash 8y ago
  CHAdeMO is typically 50kW or less, sometimes just 20kW. They’re often unmaintained and left broken for long periods of time. They’re often installed in single units, leaving you vulnerable to being screwed by another user or someone blocking the spot. They’re usually installed in cities rather than along highways. Many important corridors don’t have enough CHAdeMO coverage for a long trip.
  - LeoPanthera 8y ago
    I'd love to see some citations for these claims. Otherwise it just sounds like you have an agenda.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      This comes from personal experience. If you want something more solid, PlugShare will show you. Go look at how they’re distributed, how many chargers are installed at each location, and what kind of speeds people report.
      - dangrossman 8y ago
        I'm in a suburb of Philadelphia. I've driven round trip to Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Atlantic City NJ, Baltimore MD on those CHAdeMO chargers. Always 50 kW available, always working, never blocked, for the 3+ years I've driven two different EVs (currently an '18 Leaf). The networks all have realtime status via their apps/websites, there's no guessing about whether a charger is working or in-use. The distribution is fking fantastic: most of them are right at the rest stops on the PA turnpike or I95 and other highways, so you don't even get off the highway to charge. Tesla puts theirs in strip malls, so you have to go through a toll, exit the highway, drive through a town, charge, drive back to the highway, go through the toll again to resume your trip. I work from home with no commute, but I put over 1000 miles a month on my Leaf because it's a great road trip car: a smoother, quieter ride than most luxury cars, that drives itself most of the time with ProPilot, with a nearly 10x larger charging network than Tesla's. Nissan throws in two years of free charging with new Leafs, so for the most part these road trips cost nothing too.
        mikeash 8y ago
        Those aren’t exactly long trips. A long range EV can do those without charging at all. 50kW is still slow. I consider Supercharger speeds to be the bare minimum.
        dangrossman 8y ago
        Those are the longest trips people realistically take by car. Philly to Baltimore is 2-3 hours each way. There are vanishingly few trips taken longer than 2-3 hours from home by car, in your own car. People choose closer destinations, or switch to another mode of transportation like plane or train. I don't care to rehash in-detail conversations we've probably had already on reddit, so I'm not going to dig up the National Household Travel Survey reports, but that's essentially what they show. Not that there's any reason you can't continue on from any of those destinations to another further one; the entire eastern and western coasts are covered by several CHAdeMO chargers for every Supercharger. As for Supercharger speeds, most of the time spent plugged in to one is spent at less than 50 kW, it's really not that different. Especially if we talk about the Model 3, where the standard range battery is going to be similar to the old Model S 60, which would spend less than 5 minutes above 50 kW starting from low SoC on a Supercharger before the charging rate would be no better than any CHAdeMO station. I doubt my 15-20 minute charging stops are much different from yours with your Model S 85 most of the time, except that I have a lot more options for where to charge without an adapter around here, and they're a lot more conveniently located. Most of the population lives around cities along the coasts, and those cities and coasts have excellent CHAdeMO/CCS coverage. Bolts and Leafs are viable for single-car households for a heck of a lot of people, not just Teslas.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Have had the same experience when traveling across the US with my Model S.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

toomuchtodo 8y ago

As mikeash mentions, anything non-Tesla for charging is either slow, broken, or unreliable.

Reason077 8y ago
This depends on your location. Norway and the Netherlands have fantastic non-Tesla charging networks. And the UK is improving rapidly with good coverage of reliable chargers in most parts of the country (still no >50kW chargers however).
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  To your point, no >50kW chargers. Superchargers are 100-135kW. I’m in the US, and the charging networks outside of Tesla’s are fragmented and unreliable.
  - bsdpqwz 8y ago
    fastned in the Netherlands has 175kW charging stations (not all of them), and just they announced their first 350kW one: https://fastned.nl/en/blog/post/fastned-onthult-nieuwe-generatie-snellaadstations https://fastned.nl/en/blog/post/fastned-onthult-nieuwe-gener...
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      > And the UK is improving rapidly with good coverage of reliable chargers in most parts of the country (still no >50kW chargers however).