7 ms·

Have you seen the part where you can easily port iOS apps to macOS that was probably in the making for a few years? That's pretty huge for a developer conferenc

by dewey 8y ago

Have you seen the part where you can easily port iOS apps to macOS that was probably in the making for a few years? That's pretty huge for a developer conference. Changes to the app store to make discovery easier and feature more developer stories also have a huge impact on Mac/iOS developers and their revenue.

janlukacs 8y ago
Is that an OS update? Do you really need iOS apps on the Mac? How about having decent apps in the actual native apps store?
- asasidh 8y ago
  This is the only way that they can make developers to care about putting more apps on the Mac AppStore.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  Decent apps in the actual native store is what the UIKit port is about. It’s not iOS apps on the Mac any more than tvOS apps are iOS apps on the TV. You still need to adapt it to native UI conventions like the menu bar, you just won’t need to rebuild the entire UI from the ground up in AppKit anymore.
  - janlukacs 8y ago
    Let me put it another way, when was the last time you heard a user ask for an iOS app to be on the Mac? Is this what Mac users want or is it something that Apple wants?
    - mattkevan 8y ago
      Me. It’s something I want. I love apps that allow me to work on an iPad while I'm on the tube, then pick right up where I left off on the desktop. It’s the best of both worlds. A good example is Bear Writer[0], a Markdown-based writing and notes app. The Mac app, while fully featured, is based on Electron. Without knowing anything about this new system I’d think these changes would allow the developers to create a native Mac app at least as easily as an Electron web app. [0] http://www.bear-writer.com http://www.bear-writer.com
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      I'm right here, as both a user and a developer, and would really like more native apps on the Mac. A unified platform to make it easier for developers to build apps across both platforms seems like an incredibly obvious win.
    - wlesieutre 8y ago
      Users, absolutely. Some apps have already done this (Deliveries and Paprika Recipe Manager come to mind). But it's a ton of duplicated effort right now to do that. Paprika's Mac version costs $30 to compensate. There's much less competition here; iOS has a bunch of recipe managers but as far as I know this is the only one with a companion Mac version. Maybe Facebook will make a Mac client for Messenger (messenger.com works, but some people might prefer a desktop version). Maybe Netflix will have a Mac client (they already have one in the Windows store). We could get Google Maps as an alternative to Apple's native Maps app. Slack could throw away their Electron battery-guzzler and replace the Mac version with one based on the native iOS codebase. Not every app wants or needs a Mac port, but there are plenty of cases where it could be useful.
    - always_good 8y ago
      >when was the last time you heard a user ask for an iOS app to be on the Mac This is something pretty much everyone I know wants that has had both a Mac and iPhone. There are great iPhone apps and they usually don't have a Mac version. You're stuck whipping out your phone to use some app even though you're already using your laptop.
- dewey 8y ago
  Why do you need a major OS update every year? It's been a few years now that they are incremental with small improvements and fixes and not major changes that force people to change the way they use the system. They obviously can't put all the under-the-hood changes on the slides as there's probably a ton of stability fixes and hardening going on behind the scenes. There are good iOS apps for a lot of things, if they can easily be adapted to run on the Mac as they demonstrated by porting the News app it can only be good for the ecosystem. The apps won't look like they are running in an iOS simulator and you use a mouse pointer to do touch actions. It'll be a normal native app that shares code with iOS.
- ljm 8y ago
  I would assume it's more about making it more convenient for developers to build an app for iOS and macOS using similar frameworks and APIs, without depending on React Native or just throwing Electron and the web stack at the problem. From my own minimal experience you have to pull in a fair few dependencies or do quite a lot more work if you want a more modern look for a native Mac app. Additionally, if I want to bring an iOS app to the Mac, then it'd be great to not have to figure out the Cocoa version of a certain UIKit view and then rewrite all of the code to fit. I can't imagine this would translate to some next-level version of universal binaries, but who knows what it'll be like in a few years.
- IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
  If iOS has the dominant app platform, wouldn't making it easy to port to macOS be a good thing? You get to harness all those iOS app developers (who code on the mac anyway) able to have their apps run on both platforms. Seems like a win.
some_account 8y ago
There is so much more they could do to make it be a real developers system. They could make the system modern. Right now there is more desktop innovation in KDE for gods sake.
- dewey 8y ago
  What are you missing that doesn't make it a "real developer system"? Can't say I ever got stopped by macOS. It mostly stays out of the way.
  - pknopf 8y ago
    Developing on Mac? Not so bad. Developing for Mac? Abismal.
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      I loved developing Mac apps. It was awesome. iOS is even better, so as a shared platform grows I'm excited about the prospect of more native Mac apps becoming available. What do you feel is the problem? Primarily Xcode? I hear many people have issues with it, though I've not been a heavy enough user to notice anything particularly problematic.
      - pknopf 8y ago
        Apple's platforms are amazing, but fragile. API's constantly change. And even if they don't, they functionally behave different. You just can't release an app without constant maintenance. Apple has no problem innovating, even if it means pulling every developer along with them, ready or not.
        saagarjha 8y ago
        Much of Cocoa has been the same, or almost the same, for over fifteen years. Foundation hasn’t change core API for decades.
- 8y ago

by dewey 8y ago

janlukacs 8y ago

Is that an OS update? Do you really need iOS apps on the Mac? How about having decent apps in the actual native apps store?

asasidh 8y ago
This is the only way that they can make developers to care about putting more apps on the Mac AppStore.
wlesieutre 8y ago
Decent apps in the actual native store is what the UIKit port is about. It’s not iOS apps on the Mac any more than tvOS apps are iOS apps on the TV. You still need to adapt it to native UI conventions like the menu bar, you just won’t need to rebuild the entire UI from the ground up in AppKit anymore.
- janlukacs 8y ago
  Let me put it another way, when was the last time you heard a user ask for an iOS app to be on the Mac? Is this what Mac users want or is it something that Apple wants?
  - mattkevan 8y ago
    Me. It’s something I want. I love apps that allow me to work on an iPad while I'm on the tube, then pick right up where I left off on the desktop. It’s the best of both worlds. A good example is Bear Writer[0], a Markdown-based writing and notes app. The Mac app, while fully featured, is based on Electron. Without knowing anything about this new system I’d think these changes would allow the developers to create a native Mac app at least as easily as an Electron web app. [0] http://www.bear-writer.com http://www.bear-writer.com
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    I'm right here, as both a user and a developer, and would really like more native apps on the Mac. A unified platform to make it easier for developers to build apps across both platforms seems like an incredibly obvious win.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    Users, absolutely. Some apps have already done this (Deliveries and Paprika Recipe Manager come to mind). But it's a ton of duplicated effort right now to do that. Paprika's Mac version costs $30 to compensate. There's much less competition here; iOS has a bunch of recipe managers but as far as I know this is the only one with a companion Mac version. Maybe Facebook will make a Mac client for Messenger (messenger.com works, but some people might prefer a desktop version). Maybe Netflix will have a Mac client (they already have one in the Windows store). We could get Google Maps as an alternative to Apple's native Maps app. Slack could throw away their Electron battery-guzzler and replace the Mac version with one based on the native iOS codebase. Not every app wants or needs a Mac port, but there are plenty of cases where it could be useful.
  - always_good 8y ago
    >when was the last time you heard a user ask for an iOS app to be on the Mac This is something pretty much everyone I know wants that has had both a Mac and iPhone. There are great iPhone apps and they usually don't have a Mac version. You're stuck whipping out your phone to use some app even though you're already using your laptop.
dewey 8y ago
Why do you need a major OS update every year? It's been a few years now that they are incremental with small improvements and fixes and not major changes that force people to change the way they use the system. They obviously can't put all the under-the-hood changes on the slides as there's probably a ton of stability fixes and hardening going on behind the scenes. There are good iOS apps for a lot of things, if they can easily be adapted to run on the Mac as they demonstrated by porting the News app it can only be good for the ecosystem. The apps won't look like they are running in an iOS simulator and you use a mouse pointer to do touch actions. It'll be a normal native app that shares code with iOS.
ljm 8y ago
I would assume it's more about making it more convenient for developers to build an app for iOS and macOS using similar frameworks and APIs, without depending on React Native or just throwing Electron and the web stack at the problem. From my own minimal experience you have to pull in a fair few dependencies or do quite a lot more work if you want a more modern look for a native Mac app. Additionally, if I want to bring an iOS app to the Mac, then it'd be great to not have to figure out the Cocoa version of a certain UIKit view and then rewrite all of the code to fit. I can't imagine this would translate to some next-level version of universal binaries, but who knows what it'll be like in a few years.
IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
If iOS has the dominant app platform, wouldn't making it easy to port to macOS be a good thing? You get to harness all those iOS app developers (who code on the mac anyway) able to have their apps run on both platforms. Seems like a win.

some_account 8y ago

There is so much more they could do to make it be a real developers system. They could make the system modern. Right now there is more desktop innovation in KDE for gods sake.

dewey 8y ago
What are you missing that doesn't make it a "real developer system"? Can't say I ever got stopped by macOS. It mostly stays out of the way.
- pknopf 8y ago
  Developing on Mac? Not so bad. Developing for Mac? Abismal.
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    I loved developing Mac apps. It was awesome. iOS is even better, so as a shared platform grows I'm excited about the prospect of more native Mac apps becoming available. What do you feel is the problem? Primarily Xcode? I hear many people have issues with it, though I've not been a heavy enough user to notice anything particularly problematic.
    - pknopf 8y ago
      Apple's platforms are amazing, but fragile. API's constantly change. And even if they don't, they functionally behave different. You just can't release an app without constant maintenance. Apple has no problem innovating, even if it means pulling every developer along with them, ready or not.
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        Much of Cocoa has been the same, or almost the same, for over fifteen years. Foundation hasn’t change core API for decades.
8y ago