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If they do that they better damn well block ads in their apps too. I don't like ads as much as the next person but they pay the bills, and I'll burn my top 50 a

If they do that they better damn well block ads in their apps too. I don't like ads as much as the next person but they pay the bills, and I'll burn my top 50 app to the ground before I let Apple force me into their walled garden in order to make money.

Rjevski 8y ago
Do you mean Apple's own apps or third-party ones? I'm not sure in-app ads should be completely blocked, but there should be strong policies around what is allowed, and possibly an approval scheme for ads just like there currently is for apps. Also, a paid tier that removes all ads should be mandatory if an app has any kind of ads in there.
- lwansbrough 8y ago
  All I expect is if Apple does any sort of blocking of web based ads, I would expect the same treatment in App Store apps. Without that, the web would be dead on iOS.
- drb91 8y ago
  Or—novel idea here—offer an actual choice and get user approval.
bilbo0s 8y ago
As I think about this from a long term strategy standpoint, it might be to Apple's BENEFIT to actually eliminate advertising on their phones? Given the current climate politically vis-a-vis privacy, such a move would put a lot of pressure on Facebook and Google. Here's the thing though, Apple doesn't really make their money from ads. They likely make a whole lot more money on premium apps, IAPs and store fees actually. (Not to mention hardware which just blows ALL of that out of the water in terms of revenue and profit.) I wouldn't be surprised if it's a COST center for them to run their ads infrastructure. They just have to run it because a lot of large developers, like Google and Facebook, want ads. I'm not saying Apple would ever be this evil, but if they wanted, they could REALLY press their considerable advantages right now both politically AND in the market. Putting companies like Google and Facebook even more on their back feet than they already are and then going in for a crippling blow on them.
- lwansbrough 8y ago
  What is the point of me putting my app on iOS if I can't make money from it? Not every app has a viable strategy for purchase based monetization, nor should it.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    The first thing we as developers need to realize is that we are useful to platform owners as long as we are useful to platform owners. There is an old saying in business, "some customers are more trouble than they're worth." A harsh reality for developers reliant on ads is that it's entirely possible that we would be more trouble than we are worth. The revenue we generate for Apple via ads, frankly, pales in comparison to the revenue generated by the big IAP games for instance. (And I won't even bother sporting with the intelligence of any HN users by exploring the revenue gap between ads and hardware.) Point is, if Apple wanted to go "evil", if they wanted to go for a knock out blow here, they could. It would probably benefit them in the end. To be honest, I could even see a LOT of other (NON-Ads based) developers loving it. As it would result in the removal of a lot of ads based riff-raff from the store. So would it good for US? No. But would it be good for a lot of other very important stake holders not to mention Apple itself? Absolutely.
  - ballenf 8y ago
    It does put apple in an interesting position of subsidizing the infrastructure for apps which are 100% ad-supported (your $99/year fee probably doesn't cover all of it). Part of the reason you can't charge for your app (or at least this is true for many apps) is that you have to compete with ad-supported alternatives which are "free". I really wonder whether the App Store would be a more or less pleasant experience if there were only two types of apps: totally free and paid (either freemium, one-time upfront or subscription). I'd also love seeing a new category that mimics the podcast model: "sponsored" apps that advertise 1-2 products for a month or two at a time, but don't transmit any user data back except aggregate views. (This is also similar to the Masters golf tournament in the US with its very limited commercial breaks from 1-2 companies each year. It's the only golf I really enjoy watching.) Apple desperately needs a trial infrastructure so that devs don't have to do the very anti-user move of blackmailing them with ads every 12s. and an "ad free" IAP. That just puts me in a sour mood toward the dev and starts off the whole relationship on the wrong foot (yes, I probably take devs auctioning off my user data more personally than I should given that they don't have much choice in the matter if they want to eat).

Rjevski 8y ago

Do you mean Apple's own apps or third-party ones? I'm not sure in-app ads should be completely blocked, but there should be strong policies around what is allowed, and possibly an approval scheme for ads just like there currently is for apps. Also, a paid tier that removes all ads should be mandatory if an app has any kind of ads in there.

lwansbrough 8y ago
All I expect is if Apple does any sort of blocking of web based ads, I would expect the same treatment in App Store apps. Without that, the web would be dead on iOS.
drb91 8y ago
Or—novel idea here—offer an actual choice and get user approval.

bilbo0s 8y ago

As I think about this from a long term strategy standpoint, it might be to Apple's BENEFIT to actually eliminate advertising on their phones? Given the current climate politically vis-a-vis privacy, such a move would put a lot of pressure on Facebook and Google. Here's the thing though, Apple doesn't really make their money from ads. They likely make a whole lot more money on premium apps, IAPs and store fees actually. (Not to mention hardware which just blows ALL of that out of the water in terms of revenue and profit.) I wouldn't be surprised if it's a COST center for them to run their ads infrastructure. They just have to run it because a lot of large developers, like Google and Facebook, want ads. I'm not saying Apple would ever be this evil, but if they wanted, they could REALLY press their considerable advantages right now both politically AND in the market. Putting companies like Google and Facebook even more on their back feet than they already are and then going in for a crippling blow on them.

lwansbrough 8y ago
What is the point of me putting my app on iOS if I can't make money from it? Not every app has a viable strategy for purchase based monetization, nor should it.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  The first thing we as developers need to realize is that we are useful to platform owners as long as we are useful to platform owners. There is an old saying in business, "some customers are more trouble than they're worth." A harsh reality for developers reliant on ads is that it's entirely possible that we would be more trouble than we are worth. The revenue we generate for Apple via ads, frankly, pales in comparison to the revenue generated by the big IAP games for instance. (And I won't even bother sporting with the intelligence of any HN users by exploring the revenue gap between ads and hardware.) Point is, if Apple wanted to go "evil", if they wanted to go for a knock out blow here, they could. It would probably benefit them in the end. To be honest, I could even see a LOT of other (NON-Ads based) developers loving it. As it would result in the removal of a lot of ads based riff-raff from the store. So would it good for US? No. But would it be good for a lot of other very important stake holders not to mention Apple itself? Absolutely.
- ballenf 8y ago
  It does put apple in an interesting position of subsidizing the infrastructure for apps which are 100% ad-supported (your $99/year fee probably doesn't cover all of it). Part of the reason you can't charge for your app (or at least this is true for many apps) is that you have to compete with ad-supported alternatives which are "free". I really wonder whether the App Store would be a more or less pleasant experience if there were only two types of apps: totally free and paid (either freemium, one-time upfront or subscription). I'd also love seeing a new category that mimics the podcast model: "sponsored" apps that advertise 1-2 products for a month or two at a time, but don't transmit any user data back except aggregate views. (This is also similar to the Masters golf tournament in the US with its very limited commercial breaks from 1-2 companies each year. It's the only golf I really enjoy watching.) Apple desperately needs a trial infrastructure so that devs don't have to do the very anti-user move of blackmailing them with ads every 12s. and an "ad free" IAP. That just puts me in a sour mood toward the dev and starts off the whole relationship on the wrong foot (yes, I probably take devs auctioning off my user data more personally than I should given that they don't have much choice in the matter if they want to eat).