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If enough businesses reject gay customers, it imposes a financial and emotional cost on being gay. Large numbers of people don't think that's acceptable behavio

If enough businesses reject gay customers, it imposes a financial and emotional cost on being gay. Large numbers of people don't think that's acceptable behavior from commercial entities.

macinjosh 8y ago
What is 'enough' businesses? AFAIK, sexual orientation is not a protected class under the civil rights (perhaps it should be). However, even without those protections there is not a rampant problem of discrimination. So it would seem to me these problematic businesses are being sought out and taken to court because of their religious beliefs. I think the burden on the customer to go to any other bakery is less than the burden of imposing on one's religious freedom. Any comparisons to race on this topic is unfounded as race is already a protected class and I don't know of any mainstream religion that discriminates based on color.
- Paul-ish 8y ago
  > Any comparisons to race on this topic is unfounded as race is already a protected class and I don't know of any mainstream religion that discriminates based on color. Religion was an integral part of opposition to interracial marriages in the United States. In the case Loving v. Virginia, the case then ended up striking down bans on interracial marriage, the trial judge stated "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix." [1] [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/388/1 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/388/1 > I think the burden on the customer to go to any other bakery is less than the burden of imposing on one's religious freedom. This isn't at all clear to me. Even if the burdens were mismatched, I think the fact that on the one side you have private individuals and on the other you have commercial entities is an important point that you are leaving out.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    > This isn't at all clear to me. Even if the burdens were mismatched, I think the fact that on the one side you have private individuals and on the other you have commercial entities is an important point that you are leaving out. That's a valid point. Organizations can't have religious beliefs, so it would seem to me that if you have an LLC or are incorporated, you can't discriminate based on things like that. But, if you're just using the DBA model or self-employed without even a DBA, you could be allowed to. It'd make people really consider whether forming an LLC is worth it. There's a lot of benefits that come with it, but it also means you can no longer discriminate based on "religious freedom".

If enough businesses reject gay customers, it imposes a financial and emotional cost on being gay. Large numbers of people don't think that's acceptable behavior from commercial entities.

macinjosh 8y ago

What is 'enough' businesses? AFAIK, sexual orientation is not a protected class under the civil rights (perhaps it should be). However, even without those protections there is not a rampant problem of discrimination. So it would seem to me these problematic businesses are being sought out and taken to court because of their religious beliefs. I think the burden on the customer to go to any other bakery is less than the burden of imposing on one's religious freedom. Any comparisons to race on this topic is unfounded as race is already a protected class and I don't know of any mainstream religion that discriminates based on color.

Paul-ish 8y ago
> Any comparisons to race on this topic is unfounded as race is already a protected class and I don't know of any mainstream religion that discriminates based on color. Religion was an integral part of opposition to interracial marriages in the United States. In the case Loving v. Virginia, the case then ended up striking down bans on interracial marriage, the trial judge stated "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix." [1] [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/388/1 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/388/1 > I think the burden on the customer to go to any other bakery is less than the burden of imposing on one's religious freedom. This isn't at all clear to me. Even if the burdens were mismatched, I think the fact that on the one side you have private individuals and on the other you have commercial entities is an important point that you are leaving out.
- dorchadas 8y ago
  > This isn't at all clear to me. Even if the burdens were mismatched, I think the fact that on the one side you have private individuals and on the other you have commercial entities is an important point that you are leaving out. That's a valid point. Organizations can't have religious beliefs, so it would seem to me that if you have an LLC or are incorporated, you can't discriminate based on things like that. But, if you're just using the DBA model or self-employed without even a DBA, you could be allowed to. It'd make people really consider whether forming an LLC is worth it. There's a lot of benefits that come with it, but it also means you can no longer discriminate based on "religious freedom".