7 ms·

Why not let things play out a little before predicting chaos? Github doesn't have the vendor lock-in that other companies have. It starts to go downhill? Just p

Why not let things play out a little before predicting chaos? Github doesn't have the vendor lock-in that other companies have. It starts to go downhill? Just push your repo to another Git host. Yes, you'll need to figure out how to port some of your workflows, but it won't be an insurmountable pain.

lordfoom 8y ago
>Why not let things play out a little before predicting chaos? History.
- drewmate 8y ago
  GP gave you a very good reason why this is different than historical Microsoft EEE[0]: > Github doesn't have the vendor lock-in that other companies have There's not much about Github that can't be easily replaced; it uses git at its core. Comments, issues, and wikis are convenient, but relatively simple to implement. The main value in Github is the de facto community status it has, which it earned by being an open community and good steward of open source projects. The worst MS could do here is shoot themselves in the foot and ruin that value (which they just purchased for 7.5B) by driving developers to other platforms (who will make it all too easy to switch). I think the M&A teams at MS must have seen this possiblity and have a different plan in mind for Github. Think dead simple (one-click) Azure deployments and integrations. And if you want (or need) that functionality for a different cloud provider, you'll just have to build it yourself on a different site. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
  - sixothree 8y ago
    It's not like anything about github is open source. Maybe that will change.
    - wooter 8y ago
      well, there was the atom editor. which now i fully expect msft to kill in favor of vs code. damn it.
      - workinthehead 8y ago
        How would they kill it? It's open source.
        kickopotomus 8y ago
        They can't really "kill" it as in destroy it, but the biggest contributors to that project were all GitHub staff. MS will most definitely redirect any staff efforts to VSCode instead.
      - Totoradio 8y ago
        VsCode is open source too: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode
        wooter 8y ago
        i vastly prefer atom - open source or not.
  - boffinism 8y ago
    > There's not much about Github that can't be easily replaced. Integration and workflow. Thanks to the various gubbins available in the marketplace[0], CI/CD goodies, hooks into communication and project management tools and so on, for a lot of people migrating away from Github would mean losing access to enough little convenience things that actually it's not feasible for a large organisation with not great process change management techniques. https://github.com/marketplace https://github.com/marketplace
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  Yea, but if you maintain that mentality, that affects your thoughts, affects behavior, affects 'crowd' behavior generally (all those agree), is perceived as such from those you predict about, get it? Affects all those who disagree too. 2 sides, same coin. You assume chaos, they see you assume that. They shape their narrative to fit their perspective with this data in mind. That rationalizes the behavioral pattern from their end, which continues the cycle. Not saying I know any better solution, just that it's annoying as fuck to actually change when everyone keeps assuming you won't, and treats you as such. Chaos is probably going to happen even if there's a general mutual trust that springs forth. Can't control chaos.
mikro2nd 8y ago
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They haven't fooled me since the 1990's and they won't fool me this time.
- jeffrallen 8y ago
  Exactly. Which is why today I typed "go help importpath" to remember how to use my own domain name for my import path. Dear reader, you should too.
ptx 8y ago
That's why the "extend" phase is there in the embrace/extend/extinguish strategy - to make it an insurmountable pain to migrate elsewhere, after first having lured the users in with the "embrace" phase. Letting it play out is just what they need to move from phase 1 to phase 2.
- Ajedi32 8y ago
  But "extend" hasn't happened yet. There's no need to cry foul until it does, because until it does there's no evidence of anything nefarious going on. "Embrace" on its own is perfectly normal and acceptable behavior. Vendor lock-in is an important concern regardless of who owns the platform you're being locked into.
  - Lordarminius 8y ago
    > But "extend" hasn't happened yet. If we wait for it to happen by then it will be too late
    - Ajedi32 8y ago
      So you're saying anytime a new technology gets embraced by anyone it's time to jump ship? That's ridiculous. Should we be abandoning email because Outlook exists? Edit: Actually, I don't think the idea of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" even applies to buying out companies. The idea behind that phrase applies to technologies, not companies. You can't "extend" GitHub with proprietary tech, it was never an open source technology in the first place. If Microsoft starts extending git with new proprietary features that only work with GitHub, _then_ it may be time to start being concerned. As of now though, I don't see how "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" applies to this situation in the slightest.
      - quickben 8y ago
        No need to get concerned. Just look at codeplex, it fully supports Git and Microsoft haven't touched that feature. :P
      - 8y ago
zouhair 8y ago
When you see a fox entering a chicken coop would you also say the same? Microsoft will most likely gut GitHub, not as badly as Oracle would have done it but they will. This said, Free Software Devs should never have trusted GitHub in the first place.
GuB-42 8y ago
It works for the git repository, but GitHub is more than that. There is a wiki, a bug tracker, a platform for pull requests and distribution, etc...

lordfoom 8y ago

>Why not let things play out a little before predicting chaos? History.

drewmate 8y ago
GP gave you a very good reason why this is different than historical Microsoft EEE[0]: > Github doesn't have the vendor lock-in that other companies have There's not much about Github that can't be easily replaced; it uses git at its core. Comments, issues, and wikis are convenient, but relatively simple to implement. The main value in Github is the de facto community status it has, which it earned by being an open community and good steward of open source projects. The worst MS could do here is shoot themselves in the foot and ruin that value (which they just purchased for 7.5B) by driving developers to other platforms (who will make it all too easy to switch). I think the M&A teams at MS must have seen this possiblity and have a different plan in mind for Github. Think dead simple (one-click) Azure deployments and integrations. And if you want (or need) that functionality for a different cloud provider, you'll just have to build it yourself on a different site. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- sixothree 8y ago
  It's not like anything about github is open source. Maybe that will change.
  - wooter 8y ago
    well, there was the atom editor. which now i fully expect msft to kill in favor of vs code. damn it.
    - workinthehead 8y ago
      How would they kill it? It's open source.
      - kickopotomus 8y ago
        They can't really "kill" it as in destroy it, but the biggest contributors to that project were all GitHub staff. MS will most definitely redirect any staff efforts to VSCode instead.
    - Totoradio 8y ago
      VsCode is open source too: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode
      - wooter 8y ago
        i vastly prefer atom - open source or not.
- boffinism 8y ago
  > There's not much about Github that can't be easily replaced. Integration and workflow. Thanks to the various gubbins available in the marketplace[0], CI/CD goodies, hooks into communication and project management tools and so on, for a lot of people migrating away from Github would mean losing access to enough little convenience things that actually it's not feasible for a large organisation with not great process change management techniques. https://github.com/marketplace https://github.com/marketplace
s-shellfish 8y ago
Yea, but if you maintain that mentality, that affects your thoughts, affects behavior, affects 'crowd' behavior generally (all those agree), is perceived as such from those you predict about, get it? Affects all those who disagree too. 2 sides, same coin. You assume chaos, they see you assume that. They shape their narrative to fit their perspective with this data in mind. That rationalizes the behavioral pattern from their end, which continues the cycle. Not saying I know any better solution, just that it's annoying as fuck to actually change when everyone keeps assuming you won't, and treats you as such. Chaos is probably going to happen even if there's a general mutual trust that springs forth. Can't control chaos.

mikro2nd 8y ago

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They haven't fooled me since the 1990's and they won't fool me this time.

jeffrallen 8y ago
Exactly. Which is why today I typed "go help importpath" to remember how to use my own domain name for my import path. Dear reader, you should too.

ptx 8y ago

That's why the "extend" phase is there in the embrace/extend/extinguish strategy - to make it an insurmountable pain to migrate elsewhere, after first having lured the users in with the "embrace" phase. Letting it play out is just what they need to move from phase 1 to phase 2.

Ajedi32 8y ago
But "extend" hasn't happened yet. There's no need to cry foul until it does, because until it does there's no evidence of anything nefarious going on. "Embrace" on its own is perfectly normal and acceptable behavior. Vendor lock-in is an important concern regardless of who owns the platform you're being locked into.
- Lordarminius 8y ago
  > But "extend" hasn't happened yet. If we wait for it to happen by then it will be too late
  - Ajedi32 8y ago
    So you're saying anytime a new technology gets embraced by anyone it's time to jump ship? That's ridiculous. Should we be abandoning email because Outlook exists? Edit: Actually, I don't think the idea of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" even applies to buying out companies. The idea behind that phrase applies to technologies, not companies. You can't "extend" GitHub with proprietary tech, it was never an open source technology in the first place. If Microsoft starts extending git with new proprietary features that only work with GitHub, _then_ it may be time to start being concerned. As of now though, I don't see how "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" applies to this situation in the slightest.
    - quickben 8y ago
      No need to get concerned. Just look at codeplex, it fully supports Git and Microsoft haven't touched that feature. :P
    - 8y ago

zouhair 8y ago

When you see a fox entering a chicken coop would you also say the same? Microsoft will most likely gut GitHub, not as badly as Oracle would have done it but they will. This said, Free Software Devs should never have trusted GitHub in the first place.

GuB-42 8y ago

It works for the git repository, but GitHub is more than that. There is a wiki, a bug tracker, a platform for pull requests and distribution, etc...