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I still see Microsoft's predictable behavior in 2018. I have a friend who owns a Surface, and I was thinking it would be useful to put Linux on it (it was older

I still see Microsoft's predictable behavior in 2018. I have a friend who owns a Surface, and I was thinking it would be useful to put Linux on it (it was older ARM hardware). Well you can't, it's a Surface RT and Microsoft not only locks the bootloader but it also only runs Microsoft approved apps. That's their endgame whenever possible. Apparently people didn't like having fully locked down computers and they discontinued the product, shocker.

AsyncAwait 8y ago
> Apparently people didn't like having fully locked down computers and they discontinued the product, shocker. They do, it just can't pretend to be a full on computer, see the iPad.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  It doesn't have to pretend, it is a full computer that is intentionally crippled by the vendor. Apple doing it to doesn't make it any less despicable. These stupid strategies turn perfectly good computers into landfill.
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    Windows apps are NOT compiled for ARM though. It would take emulating the entire x86 processor arch on ARM to allow this to run normal software on it or the original devs porting / recompiling with ARM in mind. A lot of old windows software is only available in original binary form and the source is long gone.
  - sydd 8y ago
    It is as a full computer as an iPad, and was never meant to be more. It has a dumbed down version of Windows, has ARM architecture and was lacked down from day one. Why aren't people pissed that they cant install Linux on their iPhones and iPads?
  - ovao 8y ago
    "Despicable" is pretty questionable. I still use my six-year-old iPad almost daily. That's certainly a longer lifespan than I've ever gotten out of any PC or a Mac, and the reason is probably because it isn't a full-fledged computer. Once I'm finally tired of its now anemic performance and replace it, I can probably plug it in and use it as an SSH viewer for journalctl or something, so it can still be of some use.
  - Razengan 8y ago
    Some of the people in my family would have never used a computing device if it wasn’t for the iPad. Many people can do like 70%-90% of everything they ever want to do on computers, on an iPad. It’s not really that crippled.
ewzimm 8y ago
You still see Microsoft's predictable behavior in 2018 by looking at a discontinued product from 2012-2014? I think that's evidence that there has been a shift, and support for Linux has improved significantly since then. Of course, if the user's motivation for using Linux is in protest against Microsoft, this won't matter, but for those who work in multiple platforms, Microsoft seems to have the most comprehensive vision of computing: not tied to any particular technology or license but fully integrated and interoperable. This is a good attitude worth supporting, even if you might object to some of their other policies. We're moving toward the era of ubiquitous computing where there's a single ecosystem with multiple technologies powering an integrated whole.
- baldfat 8y ago
  Long time Linux user and it is still my preferred OS, but I never understood the hypocrisy of the MS hate in Linux. Normally it is written on an Apple product running OS X and a VM of Linux for a server. Over the years Apple's laptops are the number one laptop at Linux conferences. As a whole Apple has been the biggest enemy to open source even though they have had some good open source projects. MS has had several years showing that Linux and Open Source makes business sense just like most of us have been saying for years.
guardian5x 8y ago
Maybe he should've bought a Surface Pro, which was never locked down.
- adtac 8y ago
  Surface Pro was also released a while after RT.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    It was released less than twelve months later.
Someone1234 8y ago
The Surface RT was discontinued in 2015, and was manufactured in 2012. Is this an six year old anecdote? Sorry, but these days I feel like there are more anecdotes involving the Surface RT to prove that "Microsoft hates Linux" than there are actual Surface RT devices still in active usage, but yet people still eat this stuff up. > That's their endgame whenever possible. Their "endgame" was six years ago and hasn't come back since..?
- jopsen 8y ago
  > The Surface RT was discontinued in 2015, and was manufactured in 2012. Is this an eight year old anecdote? The current year is 2018, right? Or did I miss something :)
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    You're right, Monday morning. :)
- oehpr 8y ago
  I swear I heard a statement exactly to this effect in 2012. Something about how Microsoft is changed and how unfair it was people were continuing to judge it by it's actions in the past. What an endlessly forgiving position you have adopted.
jackfoxy 8y ago
I have a Surface RT too that I love for couch computing. It didn't cost much and I continue to get a lot of use from it, but the fact is it is not fully supported.
bonyt 8y ago
To be fair, Windows RT (the locked-down ARM version) was discontinued shortly after Satya Nadella took over[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT#Demise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT#Demise
ksk 8y ago
That's because you don't appreciate hardware design. Its understandable that you might be confused because of the presence of x86 compatible hardware. There is no such thing as "ARM Laptop". All ARM devices choose their own ARM processor implementation integrated with a custom motherboard with an undocumented firmware design. Not to mention custom drivers for all of the I/O. You can't install any OS on any random hardware.
- netsec_burn 8y ago
  You can install Linux on ARM architectures. It's commonplace that people install it on low end ARM laptops (and yes, those definitely exist in the 2-in-1 market). Also what do you think a Raspberry Pi is?
  - ksk 8y ago
    >You can install Linux on ARM architectures. No, you can maybe install and boot Linux on SOME arm devices. Furthermore, installation and booting does not guarantee full operation of all attached peripherals. Only those devices that have the blessing of the manufacturer will work properly with Linux. There is no expectation that any random ARM device will be able to install and boot Linux. I would invite you to read up on the topic. ARM hardware compatibility is absolutely nothing like x86. > Also what do you think a Raspberry Pi is? I have one on my desk right now. What about it?
phaed 8y ago
Don't let the naysayers distract you, go get em' Don Quixote.

AsyncAwait 8y ago

> Apparently people didn't like having fully locked down computers and they discontinued the product, shocker. They do, it just can't pretend to be a full on computer, see the iPad.

jacquesm 8y ago
It doesn't have to pretend, it is a full computer that is intentionally crippled by the vendor. Apple doing it to doesn't make it any less despicable. These stupid strategies turn perfectly good computers into landfill.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  Windows apps are NOT compiled for ARM though. It would take emulating the entire x86 processor arch on ARM to allow this to run normal software on it or the original devs porting / recompiling with ARM in mind. A lot of old windows software is only available in original binary form and the source is long gone.
- sydd 8y ago
  It is as a full computer as an iPad, and was never meant to be more. It has a dumbed down version of Windows, has ARM architecture and was lacked down from day one. Why aren't people pissed that they cant install Linux on their iPhones and iPads?
- ovao 8y ago
  "Despicable" is pretty questionable. I still use my six-year-old iPad almost daily. That's certainly a longer lifespan than I've ever gotten out of any PC or a Mac, and the reason is probably because it isn't a full-fledged computer. Once I'm finally tired of its now anemic performance and replace it, I can probably plug it in and use it as an SSH viewer for journalctl or something, so it can still be of some use.
- Razengan 8y ago
  Some of the people in my family would have never used a computing device if it wasn’t for the iPad. Many people can do like 70%-90% of everything they ever want to do on computers, on an iPad. It’s not really that crippled.

ewzimm 8y ago

You still see Microsoft's predictable behavior in 2018 by looking at a discontinued product from 2012-2014? I think that's evidence that there has been a shift, and support for Linux has improved significantly since then. Of course, if the user's motivation for using Linux is in protest against Microsoft, this won't matter, but for those who work in multiple platforms, Microsoft seems to have the most comprehensive vision of computing: not tied to any particular technology or license but fully integrated and interoperable. This is a good attitude worth supporting, even if you might object to some of their other policies. We're moving toward the era of ubiquitous computing where there's a single ecosystem with multiple technologies powering an integrated whole.

baldfat 8y ago
Long time Linux user and it is still my preferred OS, but I never understood the hypocrisy of the MS hate in Linux. Normally it is written on an Apple product running OS X and a VM of Linux for a server. Over the years Apple's laptops are the number one laptop at Linux conferences. As a whole Apple has been the biggest enemy to open source even though they have had some good open source projects. MS has had several years showing that Linux and Open Source makes business sense just like most of us have been saying for years.

guardian5x 8y ago

Maybe he should've bought a Surface Pro, which was never locked down.

adtac 8y ago
Surface Pro was also released a while after RT.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  It was released less than twelve months later.

Someone1234 8y ago

The Surface RT was discontinued in 2015, and was manufactured in 2012. Is this an six year old anecdote? Sorry, but these days I feel like there are more anecdotes involving the Surface RT to prove that "Microsoft hates Linux" than there are actual Surface RT devices still in active usage, but yet people still eat this stuff up. > That's their endgame whenever possible. Their "endgame" was six years ago and hasn't come back since..?

jopsen 8y ago
> The Surface RT was discontinued in 2015, and was manufactured in 2012. Is this an eight year old anecdote? The current year is 2018, right? Or did I miss something :)
- Someone1234 8y ago
  You're right, Monday morning. :)
oehpr 8y ago
I swear I heard a statement exactly to this effect in 2012. Something about how Microsoft is changed and how unfair it was people were continuing to judge it by it's actions in the past. What an endlessly forgiving position you have adopted.

jackfoxy 8y ago

I have a Surface RT too that I love for couch computing. It didn't cost much and I continue to get a lot of use from it, but the fact is it is not fully supported.

bonyt 8y ago

To be fair, Windows RT (the locked-down ARM version) was discontinued shortly after Satya Nadella took over[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT#Demise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT#Demise

ksk 8y ago

That's because you don't appreciate hardware design. Its understandable that you might be confused because of the presence of x86 compatible hardware. There is no such thing as "ARM Laptop". All ARM devices choose their own ARM processor implementation integrated with a custom motherboard with an undocumented firmware design. Not to mention custom drivers for all of the I/O. You can't install any OS on any random hardware.

netsec_burn 8y ago
You can install Linux on ARM architectures. It's commonplace that people install it on low end ARM laptops (and yes, those definitely exist in the 2-in-1 market). Also what do you think a Raspberry Pi is?
- ksk 8y ago
  >You can install Linux on ARM architectures. No, you can maybe install and boot Linux on SOME arm devices. Furthermore, installation and booting does not guarantee full operation of all attached peripherals. Only those devices that have the blessing of the manufacturer will work properly with Linux. There is no expectation that any random ARM device will be able to install and boot Linux. I would invite you to read up on the topic. ARM hardware compatibility is absolutely nothing like x86. > Also what do you think a Raspberry Pi is? I have one on my desk right now. What about it?

phaed 8y ago

Don't let the naysayers distract you, go get em' Don Quixote.