4 ms·

Empower, extend, extinguish? Or was it different?

by chrisper 8y ago

wintorez 8y ago
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."
- make3 8y ago
  you can safely attribute to malice what has been clearly stated as a strategy by multiple people on the record (later)
atonse 8y ago
I’m so tired of this trope. It’s like nothing Microsoft does is ever enough for people to realize that there is enough new leadership that isn’t doing this nonsense. Is there any evidence in the Nadella years of MS doing this in the way they used to do this in the 90s?
- chrisper 8y ago
  Are jokes not allowed anymore? I was trying to make a reference to the "empowering" in the title...
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    HN is less receptive to humor than most other sites.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  I would still say be wary. There isa definite change of tone in the modern Microsoft, but remember that they're still doing a lot of sketchy things. The ongoing patent trolling, or mandatory telemetry in Windows are examples.
- TheCondor 8y ago
  So a new CEO and the established culture just automatically changes? It’s not just that MSFT did what they did, but they established a culture that was cool with it and even came up with the ideas. How do we know they are no longer doing that? It’s not like they openly admitted to what they did in the 1990s...
  - atonse 8y ago
    They’ve open sourced so many of their Crown Jewels, put SQL server on Linux. I mean this stuff gets at the core and soul of what was Microsoft. The burden of proof is in the accusers that claim they haven’t changed a bit. Where’s the proof that they’re the same Microsoft?
    - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
      > The burden of proof I don't think that concept is relevant to this format of discussion.
    - Nelson69 8y ago
      What crown jewels are these? Windows? Office? Edge? They're trying, they see the writing on the wall, it's foolish to not see that they're trying. I think it would be equally foolish to just whitewash away the sins of the past.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  Nadella has worked at MS long enough to have been there when the company was all-in on SCO vs Linux. He's been there since 1992. That means that if he was so ethically challenged that he could sit through that without piping up that I have very little hope that there is a real and sincere change happening. Most of what I see is just very clever PR whilst under the hood not much has changed. They just got a lot smarter about keeping their nastiness out of the public light. The reason why the 'trope' gets trotted out is because this could very well be the part where Microsoft finally gets to 'embrace' the open source world where they can hurt it for real. Keep in mind that nothing comes close to threatening Microsoft at its core business as open source software does.
  - atonse 8y ago
    This comes down to your definition of “core business” Open source (LibreOffice) has never seriously threatened office for professionals so much as maybe google docs, and even then not so much. And they’ve made great moves towards subscriptions so that’s going strong. Windows isn’t threatened so much by open source unless you talk about either Apple or chromebooks. Again, less about open source and more about the web. They’ve already lost developer mindshare to open source culture. So they responded apppropriately by open sourcing their entire .NET platform, and actually using a useful license like Apache, not some murky custom commercial nonsense. How do you suppose they’re going to start hurting the open source world? I’m all ears, especially given they’d have to sue companies like FB and Google. Just because Nadella was there, it doesn’t mean he ran that operation that sued SCO. Otherwise that would’ve come out. Plus with personalities like Bill Gates, they would clearly override any dissent.
Finnucane 8y ago
Isn't that the usual course of a corporate acquisition? One business buys another, they make an announcement, nothing will change, and a year later the old thing is completely gone. Happens in all sorts of industries, it's not just Microsoft.

Empower, extend, extinguish? Or was it different?

wintorez 8y ago

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

make3 8y ago
you can safely attribute to malice what has been clearly stated as a strategy by multiple people on the record (later)

atonse 8y ago

I’m so tired of this trope. It’s like nothing Microsoft does is ever enough for people to realize that there is enough new leadership that isn’t doing this nonsense. Is there any evidence in the Nadella years of MS doing this in the way they used to do this in the 90s?

chrisper 8y ago
Are jokes not allowed anymore? I was trying to make a reference to the "empowering" in the title...
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  HN is less receptive to humor than most other sites.
matthewmacleod 8y ago
I would still say be wary. There isa definite change of tone in the modern Microsoft, but remember that they're still doing a lot of sketchy things. The ongoing patent trolling, or mandatory telemetry in Windows are examples.
TheCondor 8y ago
So a new CEO and the established culture just automatically changes? It’s not just that MSFT did what they did, but they established a culture that was cool with it and even came up with the ideas. How do we know they are no longer doing that? It’s not like they openly admitted to what they did in the 1990s...
- atonse 8y ago
  They’ve open sourced so many of their Crown Jewels, put SQL server on Linux. I mean this stuff gets at the core and soul of what was Microsoft. The burden of proof is in the accusers that claim they haven’t changed a bit. Where’s the proof that they’re the same Microsoft?
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    > The burden of proof I don't think that concept is relevant to this format of discussion.
  - Nelson69 8y ago
    What crown jewels are these? Windows? Office? Edge? They're trying, they see the writing on the wall, it's foolish to not see that they're trying. I think it would be equally foolish to just whitewash away the sins of the past.
jacquesm 8y ago
Nadella has worked at MS long enough to have been there when the company was all-in on SCO vs Linux. He's been there since 1992. That means that if he was so ethically challenged that he could sit through that without piping up that I have very little hope that there is a real and sincere change happening. Most of what I see is just very clever PR whilst under the hood not much has changed. They just got a lot smarter about keeping their nastiness out of the public light. The reason why the 'trope' gets trotted out is because this could very well be the part where Microsoft finally gets to 'embrace' the open source world where they can hurt it for real. Keep in mind that nothing comes close to threatening Microsoft at its core business as open source software does.
- atonse 8y ago
  This comes down to your definition of “core business” Open source (LibreOffice) has never seriously threatened office for professionals so much as maybe google docs, and even then not so much. And they’ve made great moves towards subscriptions so that’s going strong. Windows isn’t threatened so much by open source unless you talk about either Apple or chromebooks. Again, less about open source and more about the web. They’ve already lost developer mindshare to open source culture. So they responded apppropriately by open sourcing their entire .NET platform, and actually using a useful license like Apache, not some murky custom commercial nonsense. How do you suppose they’re going to start hurting the open source world? I’m all ears, especially given they’d have to sue companies like FB and Google. Just because Nadella was there, it doesn’t mean he ran that operation that sued SCO. Otherwise that would’ve come out. Plus with personalities like Bill Gates, they would clearly override any dissent.

Finnucane 8y ago

Isn't that the usual course of a corporate acquisition? One business buys another, they make an announcement, nothing will change, and a year later the old thing is completely gone. Happens in all sorts of industries, it's not just Microsoft.