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I don't think that any of those countries were prosperous before Communism either. - Gulag-style camps and secret police already existed in the Russian empire.

I don't think that any of those countries were prosperous before Communism either. - Gulag-style camps and secret police already existed in the Russian empire. USSR managed to have an "industrial revolution" over 20 years and beat Nazi Germany, then was the first country to space and was one of the world's superpowers right up until the end. - If you look at the history of both Koreas post-WWII, you will see that the economic system has little to do with how DPRK is now. - Cuba has done OK considering the embargo. Cf Haiti - Colonialism and the Vietnam War did more damage to Vietnam than Marxism could have - Again if you look at how poor the situation in China was pre-civil war you will see that the claim that Marxist policies "destroyed" China is false. > What is certain is that the Soviet Union has been the worst reeking charnel house of this whole awful twentieth century, worse even than the one the Nazis created I think it is hypocritical to call the USSR worse than the Nazis when at least 80% of the German casualties of the war were on the Eastern Front, thanks to Stalin's brutal policy to industrialize the country.

dgut 8y ago
> Gulag-style camps and secret police already existed in the Russian empire. USSR managed to have an "industrial revolution" over 20 years and beat Nazi Germany, then was the first country to space and was one of the world's superpowers right up until the end. You either deliberately choose to ignore all the atrocities that Lenin, Stalin, and subsequent Soviet leaders committed against Soviet citizens and the complete lack of freedom, or are completely ignorant of the topic. "But the previous guy did it too!" is not an argument. Also, the famines caused by the Soviet policies are unmatchable in World history, especially considering the timeframe. Not to speak about the many violations of basic human rights, such as the abolition of private property. Life was hard for most people around the globe at the time of the Russian revolution, however, those countries that chose democracy and capitalism managed to improve considerably, while those who chose Marxism have today much to regret. One might argue that Marxism can't be possibly blamed for this, but (and this is something many have a hard time understanding) Marxism does inevitably lead to these conditions. Karl Popper's "The Open Society and Its Enemies" is a good start at why. > Cuba has done OK considering the embargo. Cf Haiti. Comparing Cuba with Haiti is the equivalent of comparing Southern Europe with Northen Africa. Very close to each other but still two worlds apart. Pre-Castro Cuba was, by most standards, far ahead most of Latin America and the rest of the world. [1][2] [1] https://ascecuba.org//c/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/v08-30smith.pdf https://ascecuba.org//c/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/v08-30smi... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNixpGx4AV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNixpGx4AV8
- realusername 8y ago
  > "But the previous guy did it too!" is not an argument. Also, the famines caused by the Soviet policies are unmatchable in World history, especially considering the timeframe. Famines were still common at that time in a lots of parts of the world, it wasn't "unmatchable", have a look at Africa, Asia and India, you will be surprised. A lot of countries were really undeveloped at that time. That's why you can't find soviet famines after the 50s. > Life was hard for most people around the globe at the time of the Russian revolution, however, those countries that chose democracy and capitalism managed to improve considerably, while those who chose Marxism have today much to regret. History needs to be analysed in it's own context, you are applying modern knowledge to past politics, this cannot work. At that time, no other country managed to develop as quickly as the soviet union, capitalism was a failure in Asia, in Africa and in latin america as well. > Pre-Castro Cuba was, by most standards, far ahead most of Latin America and the rest of the world Pre-castro cuba was a shitty fascist-like dicatorship, it wasn't ahead of anything. I can't believe you still have people defending that shithole just to be against Castro, the red scare is real... You can be against both you know.
Muromec 8y ago
>USSR managed to have an "industrial revolution" over 20 years and beat Nazi Germany, then was the first country to space That's just half the story. Space exploration was built on slave labor (everybody knows Gagarin, but who would remember Korolev and Ghlushko?) and all the industry largely rots because it proved to be not competitive after USSR collapse, so eastern block is poor in the end and still has to bear the cost of forced aspect of it.
- dgut 8y ago
  This. A space program is not very impressive if your population has to live under dystopian conditions.

dgut 8y ago

> Gulag-style camps and secret police already existed in the Russian empire. USSR managed to have an "industrial revolution" over 20 years and beat Nazi Germany, then was the first country to space and was one of the world's superpowers right up until the end. You either deliberately choose to ignore all the atrocities that Lenin, Stalin, and subsequent Soviet leaders committed against Soviet citizens and the complete lack of freedom, or are completely ignorant of the topic. "But the previous guy did it too!" is not an argument. Also, the famines caused by the Soviet policies are unmatchable in World history, especially considering the timeframe. Not to speak about the many violations of basic human rights, such as the abolition of private property. Life was hard for most people around the globe at the time of the Russian revolution, however, those countries that chose democracy and capitalism managed to improve considerably, while those who chose Marxism have today much to regret. One might argue that Marxism can't be possibly blamed for this, but (and this is something many have a hard time understanding) Marxism does inevitably lead to these conditions. Karl Popper's "The Open Society and Its Enemies" is a good start at why. > Cuba has done OK considering the embargo. Cf Haiti. Comparing Cuba with Haiti is the equivalent of comparing Southern Europe with Northen Africa. Very close to each other but still two worlds apart. Pre-Castro Cuba was, by most standards, far ahead most of Latin America and the rest of the world. [1][2] [1] https://ascecuba.org//c/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/v08-30smith.pdf https://ascecuba.org//c/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/v08-30smi... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNixpGx4AV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNixpGx4AV8

realusername 8y ago
> "But the previous guy did it too!" is not an argument. Also, the famines caused by the Soviet policies are unmatchable in World history, especially considering the timeframe. Famines were still common at that time in a lots of parts of the world, it wasn't "unmatchable", have a look at Africa, Asia and India, you will be surprised. A lot of countries were really undeveloped at that time. That's why you can't find soviet famines after the 50s. > Life was hard for most people around the globe at the time of the Russian revolution, however, those countries that chose democracy and capitalism managed to improve considerably, while those who chose Marxism have today much to regret. History needs to be analysed in it's own context, you are applying modern knowledge to past politics, this cannot work. At that time, no other country managed to develop as quickly as the soviet union, capitalism was a failure in Asia, in Africa and in latin america as well. > Pre-Castro Cuba was, by most standards, far ahead most of Latin America and the rest of the world Pre-castro cuba was a shitty fascist-like dicatorship, it wasn't ahead of anything. I can't believe you still have people defending that shithole just to be against Castro, the red scare is real... You can be against both you know.

Muromec 8y ago

>USSR managed to have an "industrial revolution" over 20 years and beat Nazi Germany, then was the first country to space That's just half the story. Space exploration was built on slave labor (everybody knows Gagarin, but who would remember Korolev and Ghlushko?) and all the industry largely rots because it proved to be not competitive after USSR collapse, so eastern block is poor in the end and still has to bear the cost of forced aspect of it.

dgut 8y ago
This. A space program is not very impressive if your population has to live under dystopian conditions.