5 ms·

In my opinion, schools have a discipline problem in that schools (teachers) tolerate/ignore disrespect from students toward their teachers and the learning envi

In my opinion, schools have a discipline problem in that schools (teachers) tolerate/ignore disrespect from students toward their teachers and the learning environment yet at the same time except discipline outside of school hours, in the form of excessive homework. The net effect is that schools are a poor environment for learning or constructive socializing, and time at home is spent on homework which severely cuts into social activities and free-play.

aidenn0 8y ago
This is definitely a problem; after observing several classrooms in a few schools I noticed a few things: 1. Some schools have a systematic problem of this; if the administration is not willing to back up the teachers, the teachers have limited options. 2. Some teachers have difficulty maintaining discipline even when the administration is supportive. 3. I do my best to avoid schools like #1, and with #2 usually means that there will be approximately zero consequence to the child not doing homework. With 4 kids I have better things to do with my time than policing homework, so I set aside an hour a night as "study time." when my kids have figured out they have a #2 teacher, they spend the time reading a book. The lack of homework is not reflected in their grades, and the only consequence is I get called a bad parent 4 times at the parent/teacher conference, which hurts my feelings not at all. Finally a funny little anecdote involving one of my kids and a teacher who had zero control of the classroom: My daughter came home from school on Friday and was obviously upset. After a bit of cajoling she said she was sad because "My teacher said that if I kept on doing [Obnoxious Behavior] I would get detention, but I've been doing it all week and I still haven't gotten detention. What do I have to do to get detention?"
- hycaria 8y ago
  This feels weird. Why don't you as a parent enforce homework (or decent behavior) ? There's nothing to be proud of in my opinion; and maybe it's not reflected in grades yet but learning comes through repetition, without exception. Missing out on practice is a big deal for proficiency (and it's not a bad habit to pick up either). Honestly I have very little sympathy for parents that thinks its ok to disrespect teachers because they didn't earn it themselves (or so it sounds).
  - aidenn0 8y ago
    I will help the teacher enforce homework, but I'm not going to do it alone. If a kid doesn't want to do it, and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it, my options are limited. I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers, but if the teacher's approach to getting respect is by making threats that they never intend to follow through on, then they are undermining themselves. There are limits on what I can do at 3pm if the majority of my child's peers are openly disrespecting the teacher for the previous 7 hours straight with zero consequence. I will absolutely support the teacher in any efforts they make, but when the teacher makes no effort, there is nothing for me to support.
    - hycaria 8y ago
      >If a kid doesn't want to do it, How can this even be an argument. >and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it They do obviously since you have negative feedback from the teachers about undone homework. Also as a parent shouldn't you care if they do it ? >I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers Then why can she be obnoxious in class, complain about it at home and still nothing happens ? Do you meet regularily with the teachers ? Or communicate with them about how you wished they would enforce punitions ? Or at the very least tell them how you learned about how your child is doing X (why do you even learn it from her, isn't there supposed to be feedback every trimester or such ?) which sucks, is unappropriate and which you've discussed with her, etc...
      - aidenn0 8y ago
        >> If a kid doesn't want to do it, > How can this even be an argument. I mentioned it because if my child wants to do their homework then all problems go away. The ultimate goal is that my child will want to do their homework; I'm obviously not going to monitor their homework once they are in college. >> and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it > They do obviously since you have negative feedback from the teachers about undone homework. Let me tell you an analogous story from my work: Another engineer tells me they have an urgent problem they need solved. Every time they ask me about it they stress how urgent it is. However, when I ask for clarification or more information, it takes them several work days, and sometimes several reminders for them to get back to me. I ran into them a few weeks after the issue was resolved and asked them how it went. They respond that they haven't done any testing of it yet. Was the problem really urgent for them? After all, they did tell me many times how urgent it was. > Also as a parent shouldn't you care if they do it? I want my child to be successful. Doing homework is a very important part of that. However, as I said earlier the goal is that when they are older they will choose to do that. I do not believe that standing behind my child for 3 hours a night 5 days a week making sure they stay on-task is an effective way of achieving that goal (not to mention that with 4 children it would take up 6 hours each of my time and my wife's time). My parents were incredibly strict about homework. The day I left the house I stopped doing homework and I nearly flunked out of college. My wife's parents were far less strict about homework and she graduated college in 3 years. It seems to be working with my kids too. My oldest is a 5th grader and recently had a research paper due. She gathered her materials and then procrastinated. She was obviously embarrassed when she asked to stay up late to work on it, which to me is a sign that she understands it's her responsibility to get it done. >> I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers > Then why can she be obnoxious in class, complain about it at home and still nothing happens? I never said nothing happens. In this specific case I had her collate worksheets for the teacher before school one morning. I find it absurd that I had to be the one to correct a behavior that had been going on in the classroom for 5 days. > Do you meet regularily with the teachers? In general 4 times a year (there's a quarter system here). For this specific case, I volunteered in the classroom for an hour a week, so I saw the teacher a lot (it's also how I know that she had zero control over the classroom). The teacher never informed me of my daughter's behavior, nor the threat of detention. > Or communicate with them about how you wished they would enforce punitions? Yes. Some listen, others ignore me (My wife has been told she's wrong, perhaps a bit of casual sexism there, but I never been contradicted, just ignored by the teachers that tell my wife she's wrong). > Or at the very least tell them how you learned about how your child is doing X (why do you even learn it from her, isn't there supposed to be feedback every trimester or such ?) which sucks, is unappropriate and which you've discussed with her, etc... Yes, I've done all these things (and it's quarters rather than trimesters where I live).

aidenn0 8y ago

This is definitely a problem; after observing several classrooms in a few schools I noticed a few things: 1. Some schools have a systematic problem of this; if the administration is not willing to back up the teachers, the teachers have limited options. 2. Some teachers have difficulty maintaining discipline even when the administration is supportive. 3. I do my best to avoid schools like #1, and with #2 usually means that there will be approximately zero consequence to the child not doing homework. With 4 kids I have better things to do with my time than policing homework, so I set aside an hour a night as "study time." when my kids have figured out they have a #2 teacher, they spend the time reading a book. The lack of homework is not reflected in their grades, and the only consequence is I get called a bad parent 4 times at the parent/teacher conference, which hurts my feelings not at all. Finally a funny little anecdote involving one of my kids and a teacher who had zero control of the classroom: My daughter came home from school on Friday and was obviously upset. After a bit of cajoling she said she was sad because "My teacher said that if I kept on doing [Obnoxious Behavior] I would get detention, but I've been doing it all week and I still haven't gotten detention. What do I have to do to get detention?"

hycaria 8y ago
This feels weird. Why don't you as a parent enforce homework (or decent behavior) ? There's nothing to be proud of in my opinion; and maybe it's not reflected in grades yet but learning comes through repetition, without exception. Missing out on practice is a big deal for proficiency (and it's not a bad habit to pick up either). Honestly I have very little sympathy for parents that thinks its ok to disrespect teachers because they didn't earn it themselves (or so it sounds).
- aidenn0 8y ago
  I will help the teacher enforce homework, but I'm not going to do it alone. If a kid doesn't want to do it, and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it, my options are limited. I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers, but if the teacher's approach to getting respect is by making threats that they never intend to follow through on, then they are undermining themselves. There are limits on what I can do at 3pm if the majority of my child's peers are openly disrespecting the teacher for the previous 7 hours straight with zero consequence. I will absolutely support the teacher in any efforts they make, but when the teacher makes no effort, there is nothing for me to support.
  - hycaria 8y ago
    >If a kid doesn't want to do it, How can this even be an argument. >and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it They do obviously since you have negative feedback from the teachers about undone homework. Also as a parent shouldn't you care if they do it ? >I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers Then why can she be obnoxious in class, complain about it at home and still nothing happens ? Do you meet regularily with the teachers ? Or communicate with them about how you wished they would enforce punitions ? Or at the very least tell them how you learned about how your child is doing X (why do you even learn it from her, isn't there supposed to be feedback every trimester or such ?) which sucks, is unappropriate and which you've discussed with her, etc...
    - aidenn0 8y ago
      >> If a kid doesn't want to do it, > How can this even be an argument. I mentioned it because if my child wants to do their homework then all problems go away. The ultimate goal is that my child will want to do their homework; I'm obviously not going to monitor their homework once they are in college. >> and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it > They do obviously since you have negative feedback from the teachers about undone homework. Let me tell you an analogous story from my work: Another engineer tells me they have an urgent problem they need solved. Every time they ask me about it they stress how urgent it is. However, when I ask for clarification or more information, it takes them several work days, and sometimes several reminders for them to get back to me. I ran into them a few weeks after the issue was resolved and asked them how it went. They respond that they haven't done any testing of it yet. Was the problem really urgent for them? After all, they did tell me many times how urgent it was. > Also as a parent shouldn't you care if they do it? I want my child to be successful. Doing homework is a very important part of that. However, as I said earlier the goal is that when they are older they will choose to do that. I do not believe that standing behind my child for 3 hours a night 5 days a week making sure they stay on-task is an effective way of achieving that goal (not to mention that with 4 children it would take up 6 hours each of my time and my wife's time). My parents were incredibly strict about homework. The day I left the house I stopped doing homework and I nearly flunked out of college. My wife's parents were far less strict about homework and she graduated college in 3 years. It seems to be working with my kids too. My oldest is a 5th grader and recently had a research paper due. She gathered her materials and then procrastinated. She was obviously embarrassed when she asked to stay up late to work on it, which to me is a sign that she understands it's her responsibility to get it done. >> I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers > Then why can she be obnoxious in class, complain about it at home and still nothing happens? I never said nothing happens. In this specific case I had her collate worksheets for the teacher before school one morning. I find it absurd that I had to be the one to correct a behavior that had been going on in the classroom for 5 days. > Do you meet regularily with the teachers? In general 4 times a year (there's a quarter system here). For this specific case, I volunteered in the classroom for an hour a week, so I saw the teacher a lot (it's also how I know that she had zero control over the classroom). The teacher never informed me of my daughter's behavior, nor the threat of detention. > Or communicate with them about how you wished they would enforce punitions? Yes. Some listen, others ignore me (My wife has been told she's wrong, perhaps a bit of casual sexism there, but I never been contradicted, just ignored by the teachers that tell my wife she's wrong). > Or at the very least tell them how you learned about how your child is doing X (why do you even learn it from her, isn't there supposed to be feedback every trimester or such ?) which sucks, is unappropriate and which you've discussed with her, etc... Yes, I've done all these things (and it's quarters rather than trimesters where I live).