3 ms·

That's part of the problem: we have no idea what Google is doing with our data, so we have no idea if they are respecting privacy - assuming there is even a def

by untog 8y ago

That's part of the problem: we have no idea what Google is doing with our data, so we have no idea if they are respecting privacy - assuming there is even a definition for such a thing. The only answer is to simply gather less data, or be more explicit about when you do. And Google isn't great at either.

joshuamorton 8y ago
In what ways is Google but explicit about what they collect?
- untog 8y ago
  One example that comes to mind is that Google Maps has started telling me when I've been somewhere before, like a restaurant. It's very useful information, but I do not recall an explicit prompt about Google collecting my location history in this way. Can advertisers target me based on this location history? I'm not sure. Does it affect how results are ordered on Maps? Probably. But I don't know. Relatedly, Maps shows me when a location is likely to be popular vs unpopular. I have to assume that's based on the location history of everyone using Maps - seeing how long they spend in a place and at what time. But what percentage of Maps users are aware their information is being used in this way? I doubt the number is high. Also, now I come to think of it, Google search itself. It shows different results sometimes when I'm logged in vs logged out, but it's not clear why. And I don't recall ever being asked if I wanted, say, my browsing history to influence future search results. It just does. Somehow.
  - brandmeyer 8y ago
    > Relatedly, Maps shows me when a location is likely to be popular vs unpopular. I have to assume that's based on the location history of everyone using Maps This is based on the location history of everyone using Android. Its the Google Location Services requests going back and forth all the time that tells them where people go.
  - staticassertion 8y ago
    > but I do not recall an explicit prompt about Google collecting my location history in this way. Weird, I'm pretty sure with my new Android phone, upon booting it up for the first time, I had to opt in to location services and a little popup explained exactly what it was doing.
    - pmontra 8y ago
      I'm on Android 8.0 with location services and history turned off. I'm also logged out from all Google services except Play (I want to update apps.) It works perfectly.
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    >It's very useful information, but I do not recall an explicit prompt about Google collecting my location history in this way. You did. It sounds like you want something different than transparency about when information is collected, but instead you want transparency about what information is used to give you a specific feature. For example, you opted into location history a long time ago (likely), should Google again ask for your permission every time they add a new feature that takes advantage of your location history information? (assuming said features don't affect the privacy of your data) That seems like a very strange onus.
    - robin_reala 8y ago
      Actually, if you’re in the EU then GDPR makes that explicit: consent for the use of collected data must be tied to granular functionality. You can’t now collect data and use it for indiscriminate purposes.
      - joshuamorton 8y ago
        I think (keyword think) you have that a bit mixed up. additional functionality using the same data is fine. But you cannot collect data without a specific use case. "Future features" might be a legit use, but then people should be able to opt out.
        robin_reala 8y ago
        I don’t believe you’re right (though I’m welcome to be proved wrong). Assuming the consent basis, GDPR requires that consent needs to be for a given set of data and a defined processing model. You can’t process the same data in a different way without getting new consent, and you can’t collect data indiscriminately. So saying “additional functionality using the same data is fine” is true if and only if your original consent was wide enough to include that additional processing, but consent needs to be “granular” at the same time. Tbh it’s all a bit up in the air at the moment until some case law happens. Also obviously if you’re using a different basis then none of this applies.
    - 8y ago

by untog 8y ago

joshuamorton 8y ago

In what ways is Google but explicit about what they collect?

untog 8y ago
One example that comes to mind is that Google Maps has started telling me when I've been somewhere before, like a restaurant. It's very useful information, but I do not recall an explicit prompt about Google collecting my location history in this way. Can advertisers target me based on this location history? I'm not sure. Does it affect how results are ordered on Maps? Probably. But I don't know. Relatedly, Maps shows me when a location is likely to be popular vs unpopular. I have to assume that's based on the location history of everyone using Maps - seeing how long they spend in a place and at what time. But what percentage of Maps users are aware their information is being used in this way? I doubt the number is high. Also, now I come to think of it, Google search itself. It shows different results sometimes when I'm logged in vs logged out, but it's not clear why. And I don't recall ever being asked if I wanted, say, my browsing history to influence future search results. It just does. Somehow.
- brandmeyer 8y ago
  > Relatedly, Maps shows me when a location is likely to be popular vs unpopular. I have to assume that's based on the location history of everyone using Maps This is based on the location history of everyone using Android. Its the Google Location Services requests going back and forth all the time that tells them where people go.
- staticassertion 8y ago
  > but I do not recall an explicit prompt about Google collecting my location history in this way. Weird, I'm pretty sure with my new Android phone, upon booting it up for the first time, I had to opt in to location services and a little popup explained exactly what it was doing.
  - pmontra 8y ago
    I'm on Android 8.0 with location services and history turned off. I'm also logged out from all Google services except Play (I want to update apps.) It works perfectly.
- joshuamorton 8y ago
  >It's very useful information, but I do not recall an explicit prompt about Google collecting my location history in this way. You did. It sounds like you want something different than transparency about when information is collected, but instead you want transparency about what information is used to give you a specific feature. For example, you opted into location history a long time ago (likely), should Google again ask for your permission every time they add a new feature that takes advantage of your location history information? (assuming said features don't affect the privacy of your data) That seems like a very strange onus.
  - robin_reala 8y ago
    Actually, if you’re in the EU then GDPR makes that explicit: consent for the use of collected data must be tied to granular functionality. You can’t now collect data and use it for indiscriminate purposes.
    - joshuamorton 8y ago
      I think (keyword think) you have that a bit mixed up. additional functionality using the same data is fine. But you cannot collect data without a specific use case. "Future features" might be a legit use, but then people should be able to opt out.
      - robin_reala 8y ago
        I don’t believe you’re right (though I’m welcome to be proved wrong). Assuming the consent basis, GDPR requires that consent needs to be for a given set of data and a defined processing model. You can’t process the same data in a different way without getting new consent, and you can’t collect data indiscriminately. So saying “additional functionality using the same data is fine” is true if and only if your original consent was wide enough to include that additional processing, but consent needs to be “granular” at the same time. Tbh it’s all a bit up in the air at the moment until some case law happens. Also obviously if you’re using a different basis then none of this applies.
  - 8y ago