6 ms·

As a father of three elementary school kiddos, here's my anecdotal-evidenced perspective: I see a lot of other children who are experiencing a simultaneous exc

by jpm_sd 8y ago

As a father of three elementary school kiddos, here's my anecdotal-evidenced perspective: I see a lot of other children who are experiencing a simultaneous excess and deficit of parental authority. Their parents rarely or never correct behavior that is disrespectful, self centered, or too demanding. From my point of view, they should be saying "No" much more often - firmly and respectfully. At the same time, the kids are forced into endless regulated, supervised activities and given little or no free time. Or what free time they have is spent on YouTube. Seems to result in kids who are rude, fragile, and ignorant of normal human interaction.

aidenn0 8y ago
I am the father of 4 kids with the youngest starting kindergarten in the fall. My anecdotal evidence is exactly the same. I'd like to add though that many parents I've seen say "No" but then completely fail to follow through; either giving in after repeated requests or failing to provide any consequence for disobedience[1] If a few more HNers can chime in, we'll have enough anecdotes to call it "data!" 1: This is not new with the current generation either. My sister and I used to complain to our parents that they were too strict, so they talked to my friends parents and told us "Your friends' families have almost exactly the same rules as us!" And our response was "But they don't get into trouble when they break the rules!"
- krusty76 8y ago
  Father of 2, checking in! Grade school aged, but very similar assessment.
- itronitron 8y ago
  In my opinion, schools have a discipline problem in that schools (teachers) tolerate/ignore disrespect from students toward their teachers and the learning environment yet at the same time except discipline outside of school hours, in the form of excessive homework. The net effect is that schools are a poor environment for learning or constructive socializing, and time at home is spent on homework which severely cuts into social activities and free-play.
  - aidenn0 8y ago
    This is definitely a problem; after observing several classrooms in a few schools I noticed a few things: 1. Some schools have a systematic problem of this; if the administration is not willing to back up the teachers, the teachers have limited options. 2. Some teachers have difficulty maintaining discipline even when the administration is supportive. 3. I do my best to avoid schools like #1, and with #2 usually means that there will be approximately zero consequence to the child not doing homework. With 4 kids I have better things to do with my time than policing homework, so I set aside an hour a night as "study time." when my kids have figured out they have a #2 teacher, they spend the time reading a book. The lack of homework is not reflected in their grades, and the only consequence is I get called a bad parent 4 times at the parent/teacher conference, which hurts my feelings not at all. Finally a funny little anecdote involving one of my kids and a teacher who had zero control of the classroom: My daughter came home from school on Friday and was obviously upset. After a bit of cajoling she said she was sad because "My teacher said that if I kept on doing [Obnoxious Behavior] I would get detention, but I've been doing it all week and I still haven't gotten detention. What do I have to do to get detention?"
    - hycaria 8y ago
      This feels weird. Why don't you as a parent enforce homework (or decent behavior) ? There's nothing to be proud of in my opinion; and maybe it's not reflected in grades yet but learning comes through repetition, without exception. Missing out on practice is a big deal for proficiency (and it's not a bad habit to pick up either). Honestly I have very little sympathy for parents that thinks its ok to disrespect teachers because they didn't earn it themselves (or so it sounds).
      - aidenn0 8y ago
        I will help the teacher enforce homework, but I'm not going to do it alone. If a kid doesn't want to do it, and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it, my options are limited. I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers, but if the teacher's approach to getting respect is by making threats that they never intend to follow through on, then they are undermining themselves. There are limits on what I can do at 3pm if the majority of my child's peers are openly disrespecting the teacher for the previous 7 hours straight with zero consequence. I will absolutely support the teacher in any efforts they make, but when the teacher makes no effort, there is nothing for me to support.
- exolymph 8y ago
  > If a few more HNers can chime in, we'll have enough anecdotes to call it "data!" Caveat that Hacker News readers, let alone Hacker News commenters, are not a representative sample of the population at large.
mamcx 8y ago
I chime with my anecdote. I was raised with my grandmother/mother combo. In the case of the grandmother (and is a consistent theme back in the time as I know from others grandmothers of the same generation), when she say "do something" and we say "meh", she only need to LOOK INTENSE at us. Just once.
linkmotif 8y ago
Totally. The kids I see these days are obnoxious, arrogant and irritating compared to kids of my generation, and I’m born in 1985. It’s disturing to see how some of these kids behave and how their parents exercise zero authority as adults. Adults, it seems, exist to serve them. Kids with no humility will grow up to be terrifying adults.
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  As said by every generation ever, since at least ancient Greece.
  - linkmotif 8y ago
    Any in many generations they were probably right: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17224535 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17224535
axilmar 8y ago
I have noticed the same as well (father of two).

by jpm_sd 8y ago

aidenn0 8y ago

I am the father of 4 kids with the youngest starting kindergarten in the fall. My anecdotal evidence is exactly the same. I'd like to add though that many parents I've seen say "No" but then completely fail to follow through; either giving in after repeated requests or failing to provide any consequence for disobedience[1] If a few more HNers can chime in, we'll have enough anecdotes to call it "data!" 1: This is not new with the current generation either. My sister and I used to complain to our parents that they were too strict, so they talked to my friends parents and told us "Your friends' families have almost exactly the same rules as us!" And our response was "But they don't get into trouble when they break the rules!"

krusty76 8y ago
Father of 2, checking in! Grade school aged, but very similar assessment.
itronitron 8y ago
In my opinion, schools have a discipline problem in that schools (teachers) tolerate/ignore disrespect from students toward their teachers and the learning environment yet at the same time except discipline outside of school hours, in the form of excessive homework. The net effect is that schools are a poor environment for learning or constructive socializing, and time at home is spent on homework which severely cuts into social activities and free-play.
- aidenn0 8y ago
  This is definitely a problem; after observing several classrooms in a few schools I noticed a few things: 1. Some schools have a systematic problem of this; if the administration is not willing to back up the teachers, the teachers have limited options. 2. Some teachers have difficulty maintaining discipline even when the administration is supportive. 3. I do my best to avoid schools like #1, and with #2 usually means that there will be approximately zero consequence to the child not doing homework. With 4 kids I have better things to do with my time than policing homework, so I set aside an hour a night as "study time." when my kids have figured out they have a #2 teacher, they spend the time reading a book. The lack of homework is not reflected in their grades, and the only consequence is I get called a bad parent 4 times at the parent/teacher conference, which hurts my feelings not at all. Finally a funny little anecdote involving one of my kids and a teacher who had zero control of the classroom: My daughter came home from school on Friday and was obviously upset. After a bit of cajoling she said she was sad because "My teacher said that if I kept on doing [Obnoxious Behavior] I would get detention, but I've been doing it all week and I still haven't gotten detention. What do I have to do to get detention?"
  - hycaria 8y ago
    This feels weird. Why don't you as a parent enforce homework (or decent behavior) ? There's nothing to be proud of in my opinion; and maybe it's not reflected in grades yet but learning comes through repetition, without exception. Missing out on practice is a big deal for proficiency (and it's not a bad habit to pick up either). Honestly I have very little sympathy for parents that thinks its ok to disrespect teachers because they didn't earn it themselves (or so it sounds).
    - aidenn0 8y ago
      I will help the teacher enforce homework, but I'm not going to do it alone. If a kid doesn't want to do it, and the person assigning it doesn't care if they do it, my options are limited. I don't think it's okay to disrespect teachers, but if the teacher's approach to getting respect is by making threats that they never intend to follow through on, then they are undermining themselves. There are limits on what I can do at 3pm if the majority of my child's peers are openly disrespecting the teacher for the previous 7 hours straight with zero consequence. I will absolutely support the teacher in any efforts they make, but when the teacher makes no effort, there is nothing for me to support.
exolymph 8y ago
> If a few more HNers can chime in, we'll have enough anecdotes to call it "data!" Caveat that Hacker News readers, let alone Hacker News commenters, are not a representative sample of the population at large.

mamcx 8y ago

I chime with my anecdote. I was raised with my grandmother/mother combo. In the case of the grandmother (and is a consistent theme back in the time as I know from others grandmothers of the same generation), when she say "do something" and we say "meh", she only need to LOOK INTENSE at us. Just once.

linkmotif 8y ago

Totally. The kids I see these days are obnoxious, arrogant and irritating compared to kids of my generation, and I’m born in 1985. It’s disturing to see how some of these kids behave and how their parents exercise zero authority as adults. Adults, it seems, exist to serve them. Kids with no humility will grow up to be terrifying adults.

AstralStorm 8y ago
As said by every generation ever, since at least ancient Greece.
- linkmotif 8y ago
  Any in many generations they were probably right: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17224535 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17224535

axilmar 8y ago

I have noticed the same as well (father of two).