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> "On the other hand, you, coming from macOS angle, didn't have a prior experience of working with many package managers" Just to clarify this: I personally ha
by mlthoughts2018 8y ago
> "On the other hand, you, coming from macOS angle, didn't have a prior experience of working with many package managers"
Just to clarify this: I personally have always used Debian and Ubuntu, and spent a lot of time with APT (including helping to build a PPA for wrapping a custom wrapper for NetworkManager for my company because their third-party VPN solution prevented all of us who use solely Linux from being able to work remotely for a while.
Despite my personal views that Linux provides me with better tooling, many of my colleagues don't share that view, and they like to use Mac. At times, homebrew has given us a super easy way to solve some problems that arise from that situation.
This doesn't mean it's perfect. Just that it solves specific problems that a lot of users have in a way where they are not adversely affected by its downsides. Every tool out there will have downsides, and a subset of the population who hates the tool because of those downsides.
It just strikes me as incredibly myopic to privilege your own experience in system administration as oh so much more enlightened than a person manage the overall problem of a package management tool that users are actually using with success.
It's just tone deaf to me to say, "but for these engineering reason that I care about, I discredit the entire achievement of the project because the author didn't design it the way I want."
And even if it's not merely "the way you want" but includes broader and more established criteria from history of package management solutions, it's still nonsense to use that to dismiss it.
It's a lot like the shortsighted dismissals of early MongoDB, which went after very specific customer use cases at the expense of omitting big design considerations that the history of database engineering had come to accept as standard.
MongoDB used this to build a customer base who was happy with what they engineered. And then began investing in going back to fix the things that were glaringly suboptimal from historical database perspective.
Lots of people wallowed in their constant criticism of MongoDB, turning their noses up at it. Yet now it's a public company, releasing lots of features that bring it into alignment with those earlier best practices that it was forced to omit for the sake of addressing shorter term workflow needs of its customers.
To me, this is effective engineering. Sticking my nose up at MongoDB because of its earlier choices to omit accepted database designs would be a silly way to look at it.
I'm not saying that example maps perfectly to homebrew, but it is similar in spirit.
It's one thing to say, "I don't like that homebrew prioritized XYZ for its users short term experience instead of addressing big, underlying, sysadmin design considerations ABC."
It's totally different to say that this choice entirely discredits the project.
- dozzie 8y ago> It just strikes me as incredibly myopic to privilege your own experience in system administration as oh so much more enlightened than a person manage the overall problem of a package management tool that users are actually using with success. Users use with success plenty of ill-suited tools for various purposes. It doesn't make the tools any better, merely more widely used. There are many examples of better products dying, while worse products take over the market. My experience with system administration gives me better standing ground for assessing technical aspects of package managers. These technical aspects have little to do with success of any particular package manager, though, which I find unfortunate. > To me, this [MongoDB; Homebrew too?] is effective engineering. Effective marketing. Engineering, not quite, especially with MongoDB's track of losing real data because of operations tuned for benchmarks. > I'm not saying that example maps perfectly to homebrew, but it is similar in spirit. It is a similar case indeed. Especially in how marketing was much more important for adoption than technical grounds.