3 ms·

I notice on your second point you didn't use the phrase "whilst the minority live in misery" like you did for your first point. Good attempt at making readers

by louthy 8y ago

I notice on your second point you didn't use the phrase "whilst the minority live in misery" like you did for your first point. Good attempt at making readers more sympathetic to your one sided argument. You say the minority here are not lesser people, but you write them off as irrelevant and we shouldn't even bother to look for a solution because the majority have decreed it, and therefore their problems or opinions are irrelevant. If the majority decided to torture the minority, or enslave them, or segregate them, I assume you would consider that immoral, right? And that the majority shouldn't just have carte blanche to do whatever they like to the minority - democracy isn't about 'screwing the minority'. So, if the sound does really make life "a misery" then isn't that accepting of the torturing of people who have to sleep during the day? Isn't that immoral? The majority inflicting torturous sound on the minority during their sleeping hours? Or, is it actually the case that the sound isn't really that bad, and that we should all learn to be a bit more accommodating to the fact that in a city people live and work on different schedules, and that your nighttime hours are not sacred. And using your majority position to inflict your will on other people's waking hours just so you can enjoy your sleeping hours is unjustified. If you live in a city, in an area that's known for it's nighttime scene, I don't see why you should have any special privileges. Just like I don't expect any special privileges because I often sleep the hours that many are awake.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
but you write them off as irrelevant and we shouldn't even bother to look for a solution because the majority have decreed it I said and did no such thing. I'm sorry you seem to be so angry about this, but I don't see any reason why I should be a target of that anger. I don't intend to reply further to your comments here.
- louthy 8y ago
  I am not angry at you or anybody else on here, sorry if you felt that way. I am arguing my point quite strongly because I have seen aspects of nighttime culture that I feel quite passionately about be destroyed/decimated by the gentrification wave in London. For example, take a look at this google streetview link [1]. That is The Egg nightclub, it's on York Way in Central London. It was a very industrial area when the club was built. If you pan the camera around, you'll see the residential flats that have been built in the past few years. They are now trying to get the club shut down. There are two other ex-clubs in a 100 metre walk of that point that suffered a similar fate. This is unacceptable in my opinion, and this is what bugs me about this nonacceptance of nighttime culture - especially in areas where it's often the cause for the regeneration of an area in the first place. Those things made the area cool, the gentrified move in, they kill it. When I said you implied that we should "write them off as irrelevant and we shouldn't even bother to look for a solution because the majority have decreed it" I was referring to this: > In theory, we could insist everyone be quiet all the time. In practice, this interferes with industry, commercial, recreation and generally having a life. Where you appear to state that industry, commercial, recreation and [day time people] having a life is more important than a sizeable minority of human being's quality-of-life. Now, maybe that was a leap too far, but the implication I got was that the majority are more important and that a subset of humanity is irrelevant and should basically be ignored, because finding a solution is too hard; or even just having a bit of understanding that people have different cycles rather than forcing their world to be shut down whilst they're awake, is too hard. [1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5417762,-0.125419,3a,75y,75.4h,91.29t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSAh0GVA8hHSugxC8gr6dgg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DSAh0GVA8hHSugxC8gr6dgg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D53.78743%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5417762,-0.125419,3a,75y,7...
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    If you have an agenda, some friendly advice: pick your battles and look for potential allies. As stated above, I am also a night owl. This is a different comment by me criticizing how this was handled in this case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17220149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17220149 But I don't even actually want to read your comment in full, much less check your links, because you have left repeated ugly personal attacks of me in specific, which is not a good faith argument and is not exactly how you "win friends and influence people." Have a nice day and all that.
    - louthy 8y ago
      > repeated ugly personal attacks of me in specific There aren't any repeated ugly personal attacks, there isn't a single personal attack as far as I can tell. Nor are my responses targeted at you, I have responded to a number of people in this thread. The closest thing I can see is where I picked up on your use of language likely to bias a reader's opinion, I never picked up or discussed any aspect of you or your person though, it was entirely on topic. If there is anything I am truly sorry, that really isn't me. My arguments were entirely in good faith. Have a nice day yourself.

by louthy 8y ago

DoreenMichele 8y ago

but you write them off as irrelevant and we shouldn't even bother to look for a solution because the majority have decreed it I said and did no such thing. I'm sorry you seem to be so angry about this, but I don't see any reason why I should be a target of that anger. I don't intend to reply further to your comments here.

louthy 8y ago
I am not angry at you or anybody else on here, sorry if you felt that way. I am arguing my point quite strongly because I have seen aspects of nighttime culture that I feel quite passionately about be destroyed/decimated by the gentrification wave in London. For example, take a look at this google streetview link [1]. That is The Egg nightclub, it's on York Way in Central London. It was a very industrial area when the club was built. If you pan the camera around, you'll see the residential flats that have been built in the past few years. They are now trying to get the club shut down. There are two other ex-clubs in a 100 metre walk of that point that suffered a similar fate. This is unacceptable in my opinion, and this is what bugs me about this nonacceptance of nighttime culture - especially in areas where it's often the cause for the regeneration of an area in the first place. Those things made the area cool, the gentrified move in, they kill it. When I said you implied that we should "write them off as irrelevant and we shouldn't even bother to look for a solution because the majority have decreed it" I was referring to this: > In theory, we could insist everyone be quiet all the time. In practice, this interferes with industry, commercial, recreation and generally having a life. Where you appear to state that industry, commercial, recreation and [day time people] having a life is more important than a sizeable minority of human being's quality-of-life. Now, maybe that was a leap too far, but the implication I got was that the majority are more important and that a subset of humanity is irrelevant and should basically be ignored, because finding a solution is too hard; or even just having a bit of understanding that people have different cycles rather than forcing their world to be shut down whilst they're awake, is too hard. [1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5417762,-0.125419,3a,75y,75.4h,91.29t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSAh0GVA8hHSugxC8gr6dgg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DSAh0GVA8hHSugxC8gr6dgg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D53.78743%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5417762,-0.125419,3a,75y,7...
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  If you have an agenda, some friendly advice: pick your battles and look for potential allies. As stated above, I am also a night owl. This is a different comment by me criticizing how this was handled in this case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17220149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17220149 But I don't even actually want to read your comment in full, much less check your links, because you have left repeated ugly personal attacks of me in specific, which is not a good faith argument and is not exactly how you "win friends and influence people." Have a nice day and all that.
  - louthy 8y ago
    > repeated ugly personal attacks of me in specific There aren't any repeated ugly personal attacks, there isn't a single personal attack as far as I can tell. Nor are my responses targeted at you, I have responded to a number of people in this thread. The closest thing I can see is where I picked up on your use of language likely to bias a reader's opinion, I never picked up or discussed any aspect of you or your person though, it was entirely on topic. If there is anything I am truly sorry, that really isn't me. My arguments were entirely in good faith. Have a nice day yourself.