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I was about to say something similar. Obviously the language is a little strong for the consumers of these products. But if we take an honest look at the tremen

I was about to say something similar. Obviously the language is a little strong for the consumers of these products. But if we take an honest look at the tremendous amount of unnecessary cruelty endemic to the dairy industry, I think barbaric is one of the kinder words that springs to mind.

taeric 8y ago
Having just learned the etymology of barbarian, this post amuses me. I'm all for reducing the unnecessary cruelty in the industry. I get the impression it is believed that regulation can't really help anymore?
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I get the impression it is believed that regulation can't really help anymore? My general impression is that there is currently a quiet revolution happening in at least part of the industry because Temple Grandin wrote up a list of general standards for slaughter houses, like "cows should not be falling down," without specifying how to achieve those standards and then McDonald's adopted her standards. Since McDonald's is a major purchaser of beef, this is apparently having widespread impact, from what I gather. It's only one piece of the puzzle, but it provides a potential model for progress based on something other than regulation.
  - taeric 8y ago
    It is somewhat perplexing that such a rule had to be written down. Just, wow. I'm assuming many of the other rules are of comparable quality? Glad to hear things are at least projected to improve. If you have recommended links for where to track progress, I'd be game. I worry that many rules in basically invisible sectors need regulation for basic adherence. Self adherence typically sounds suspiciously naive. That said, I think trying to shine that light is more promising than just widening the net for where corruption could be with equally naive regulations. That is, I do prefer this over jumping straight to regulations.
mitchty 8y ago
> But if we take an honest look at the tremendous amount of unnecessary cruelty endemic to the dairy industry, I think barbaric is one of the kinder words that springs to mind. As someone that grew up on a dairy ranch/farm, barbaric isn't something that springs to mind.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  Was yours a fully industrialized factory farm? Family farms are a very different thing, and unfortunately they're a tiny minority in the industry at the moment.
  - mitchty 8y ago
    Family farm. I'd still consider it to be a part of the dairy industry however, we sold milk just like anyone else. There were a few bigger operations around, but they weren't much different.
    - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
      I'm glad your local farms weren't like that, but there are mountains of evidence that the big factory farms that provide the vast majority of our animal products are barbaric. I'm not a vegetarian, so I can hardly judge anyone, but you really should look into the facts of modern factory farming and see for yourself.

taeric 8y ago

Having just learned the etymology of barbarian, this post amuses me. I'm all for reducing the unnecessary cruelty in the industry. I get the impression it is believed that regulation can't really help anymore?

DoreenMichele 8y ago
I get the impression it is believed that regulation can't really help anymore? My general impression is that there is currently a quiet revolution happening in at least part of the industry because Temple Grandin wrote up a list of general standards for slaughter houses, like "cows should not be falling down," without specifying how to achieve those standards and then McDonald's adopted her standards. Since McDonald's is a major purchaser of beef, this is apparently having widespread impact, from what I gather. It's only one piece of the puzzle, but it provides a potential model for progress based on something other than regulation.
- taeric 8y ago
  It is somewhat perplexing that such a rule had to be written down. Just, wow. I'm assuming many of the other rules are of comparable quality? Glad to hear things are at least projected to improve. If you have recommended links for where to track progress, I'd be game. I worry that many rules in basically invisible sectors need regulation for basic adherence. Self adherence typically sounds suspiciously naive. That said, I think trying to shine that light is more promising than just widening the net for where corruption could be with equally naive regulations. That is, I do prefer this over jumping straight to regulations.

mitchty 8y ago

> But if we take an honest look at the tremendous amount of unnecessary cruelty endemic to the dairy industry, I think barbaric is one of the kinder words that springs to mind. As someone that grew up on a dairy ranch/farm, barbaric isn't something that springs to mind.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
Was yours a fully industrialized factory farm? Family farms are a very different thing, and unfortunately they're a tiny minority in the industry at the moment.
- mitchty 8y ago
  Family farm. I'd still consider it to be a part of the dairy industry however, we sold milk just like anyone else. There were a few bigger operations around, but they weren't much different.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    I'm glad your local farms weren't like that, but there are mountains of evidence that the big factory farms that provide the vast majority of our animal products are barbaric. I'm not a vegetarian, so I can hardly judge anyone, but you really should look into the facts of modern factory farming and see for yourself.