5 ms·

> Seems many Americans are willing to crap all over the 2nd Amendment, which is specifically in place to prevent totalitarian government. Exactly. If America

> Seems many Americans are willing to crap all over the 2nd Amendment, which is specifically in place to prevent totalitarian government. Exactly. If America has learned anything from the past half century of foreign military adventures, it should be that a big modern Army can't easily defeat a motivated insurgency that has the support and sympathy in the local population. The 2nd Amendment may have a lot of costs, but the private gun ownership it provides for would definitely make it much more difficult for a domestic totalitarian regime to establish itself in the US.

s2g 8y ago
Except the gun nuts facilitate totalitarianism because they don't give 2 shits about freedoms other than guns.
maxerickson 8y ago
I wonder if the winning side of a US military civil war would capture territory "nation building" style or if they would just use asymmetric reprisals. If it's the latter, civilian gun ownership is just going to get neighbors of insurgents blown up. I'm also pretty sure that Iraqi civilians didn't have much access to small arms prior to the destabilization of the country. Didn't slow down the insurgency any.
mr_toad 8y ago
Successful insurgencies these days are supplied with heavy weapons and training by outside powers. You’re not going to do anything against armour and air power with small arms.
- kinsomo 8y ago
  > Successful insurgencies these days are supplied with heavy weapons and training by outside powers. You’re not going to do anything against armour and air power with small arms. An insurgency has a lot of freedom in choosing its targets. If they don't have the weapons to directly attack armor or air power, they can avoid them. And with armor, there are other options, such as IEDs. Also, I'd bet that an American insurgency against a totalitarian American government would get outside arms and support, as well as sympathy, support, and defections from actual US Army units. I don't think the US military would be able to maintain the same level of cohesion it has during foreign wars in a civil war. A totalitarian regime would probably repeal the 2nd amendment as one of it's first acts, the the existing stock of small arms and ammunition would be enough for an insurgency or rebellion to start. I'd be much harder for a disarmed population to begin resistance.
  - arbitrary_name 8y ago
    I think that's a pipe dream. If it was a right wing totalitarian government, which is imho the likely lean of any totalitarian government in the us, there would be little defection or protest from folks in uniform. Think about any standoff between protesters and police or national guard in the us. Lefty students or unionists or whatever get shot or peppersprayed by cops or national guardsmen with a family to feed and a career defined by obeying the rules - that equation will not change with scale.
ataturk 8y ago
What is the "high cost" you refer to? There is incessant anti-2nd Amendment propagandizing by the leftist media who wish to extinguish the Bill of Rights as the continued assault on individual freedom in the US continues apace. You think mass shootings are because of arms available to civilians? That means that obesity would be caused by forks. No, the problem in the US is cultural rot brought about by Fabian forces. They have done quite a number on this country since the end of WWII. Actually, it started even earlier than that when Marxism went into full swing in the late 1800s. We weren't immune from leftists, we just never had the full-on communist revolution that other nations suffered. But to return to upbraiding you--no, I don't think that guns have any huge downside in that most of the people killed by guns either by suicides or accidents, probably would have died some other way. The so-called epidemic of gun violence in the US is a complete fabrication. Yes, there is "gun crime" in inner cities. A lot of it, in fact. But lacking guns, there would still be "knife crime" or "bat crime" or "bare handed crime." That kind of stuff never goes away.

s2g 8y ago

Except the gun nuts facilitate totalitarianism because they don't give 2 shits about freedoms other than guns.

maxerickson 8y ago

I wonder if the winning side of a US military civil war would capture territory "nation building" style or if they would just use asymmetric reprisals. If it's the latter, civilian gun ownership is just going to get neighbors of insurgents blown up. I'm also pretty sure that Iraqi civilians didn't have much access to small arms prior to the destabilization of the country. Didn't slow down the insurgency any.

mr_toad 8y ago

Successful insurgencies these days are supplied with heavy weapons and training by outside powers. You’re not going to do anything against armour and air power with small arms.

kinsomo 8y ago
> Successful insurgencies these days are supplied with heavy weapons and training by outside powers. You’re not going to do anything against armour and air power with small arms. An insurgency has a lot of freedom in choosing its targets. If they don't have the weapons to directly attack armor or air power, they can avoid them. And with armor, there are other options, such as IEDs. Also, I'd bet that an American insurgency against a totalitarian American government would get outside arms and support, as well as sympathy, support, and defections from actual US Army units. I don't think the US military would be able to maintain the same level of cohesion it has during foreign wars in a civil war. A totalitarian regime would probably repeal the 2nd amendment as one of it's first acts, the the existing stock of small arms and ammunition would be enough for an insurgency or rebellion to start. I'd be much harder for a disarmed population to begin resistance.
- arbitrary_name 8y ago
  I think that's a pipe dream. If it was a right wing totalitarian government, which is imho the likely lean of any totalitarian government in the us, there would be little defection or protest from folks in uniform. Think about any standoff between protesters and police or national guard in the us. Lefty students or unionists or whatever get shot or peppersprayed by cops or national guardsmen with a family to feed and a career defined by obeying the rules - that equation will not change with scale.

ataturk 8y ago

What is the "high cost" you refer to? There is incessant anti-2nd Amendment propagandizing by the leftist media who wish to extinguish the Bill of Rights as the continued assault on individual freedom in the US continues apace. You think mass shootings are because of arms available to civilians? That means that obesity would be caused by forks. No, the problem in the US is cultural rot brought about by Fabian forces. They have done quite a number on this country since the end of WWII. Actually, it started even earlier than that when Marxism went into full swing in the late 1800s. We weren't immune from leftists, we just never had the full-on communist revolution that other nations suffered. But to return to upbraiding you--no, I don't think that guns have any huge downside in that most of the people killed by guns either by suicides or accidents, probably would have died some other way. The so-called epidemic of gun violence in the US is a complete fabrication. Yes, there is "gun crime" in inner cities. A lot of it, in fact. But lacking guns, there would still be "knife crime" or "bat crime" or "bare handed crime." That kind of stuff never goes away.