5 ms·

Also keep in mind HN tends to lean anti-union because techies in general are treated and paid very well, and tend to feel like they don’t need unions.

knuththetruth 8y ago
Techies are highly-paid relative to many other workers, but they're being exploited by they're being employers in many of the same ways as their low-wage counterparts, including collusive depression and theft of wages. Death march culture and the Google-Apple wage-fixing scandal should've demonstrated this to everyone.
- walterbell 8y ago
  LinkedIn paid $6M for unpaid overtime, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137958 > LinkedIn failed to record, account and pay for all hours worked in a workweek, investigators found ... "Off the clock' hours are all too common for the American worker. This practice harms workers, denies them the wages they have rightfully earned and takes away time with families," said Susana Blanco, district director for the division in San Francisco. "We urge all employers, large and small, to review their pay practices to ensure employees know their basic workplace rights and that the commitment to compliance works through all levels of the organization. The department is committed to protecting the rights of workers and leveling the playing field for all law-abiding employers."
uiri 8y ago
I think HN tends to lean anti-union because it is centered around a community of seed investors and entrepreneurs. Unions would work against their interests.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  The answer seems obvious to me, and that is to have the workers be the investors themselves. In that way, the workers are also the bosses and can collectively decide their future and path forward. Other ways separates the money from the labor. There will always be strife in that organization. Having a worker owned co-op also means that the profits don't go elsewhere - they go back to the people doing the labor.
  - late2part 8y ago
    Can you give some succesful examples where the workers are the investors themselves and decide collectively their future?
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      Mondragon , in the Basque region of Spain is a good example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation I don't read Italian, but there are a set of unemployment laws in Italy that roughly state - if there are 10 unemployed people who have an idea for a company, they can request all their unemployment insurance collectively and form a worker cooperative. Right now, there's more than 8000 such cooperatives in Italy. In Norway, Kantega is another such example. They're considered in the top 100 best workplaces in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantega https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantega Suma, a food collective, is another such example. Again, note the humane treatment of workers. Again, this is democracy in the workplace - the workers collectively decide how they are to be treated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suma_(co-operative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suma_(co-operative) Prof. Wolff had a dissertation he gave, which is on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s
    - carapace 8y ago
      http://www.windings.com/about-us/ http://www.windings.com/about-us/ > Windings Inc. is headquartered in New Ulm, Minnesota, with domestic and international production facilities and capabilities. Windings maintains the highest standards in manufacturing, engineering, material management and concept development while achieving a global presence in the industry. > Our company was founded in 1965. The majority of our business is made up of the Industrial, Aerospace, and Defense markets. ... > In 1998, Windings Inc. formed an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan) for a planned purchase and transition of Company stock to the employees of Windings. The higher sense of responsibility that comes with employee ownership has made Windings even more responsive to customer needs and encourages innovation to bring greater value to its customers. In 2008, the company became 100% employee-owned.
    - 8y ago

knuththetruth 8y ago

Techies are highly-paid relative to many other workers, but they're being exploited by they're being employers in many of the same ways as their low-wage counterparts, including collusive depression and theft of wages. Death march culture and the Google-Apple wage-fixing scandal should've demonstrated this to everyone.

walterbell 8y ago
LinkedIn paid $6M for unpaid overtime, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137958 > LinkedIn failed to record, account and pay for all hours worked in a workweek, investigators found ... "Off the clock' hours are all too common for the American worker. This practice harms workers, denies them the wages they have rightfully earned and takes away time with families," said Susana Blanco, district director for the division in San Francisco. "We urge all employers, large and small, to review their pay practices to ensure employees know their basic workplace rights and that the commitment to compliance works through all levels of the organization. The department is committed to protecting the rights of workers and leveling the playing field for all law-abiding employers."

uiri 8y ago

I think HN tends to lean anti-union because it is centered around a community of seed investors and entrepreneurs. Unions would work against their interests.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
The answer seems obvious to me, and that is to have the workers be the investors themselves. In that way, the workers are also the bosses and can collectively decide their future and path forward. Other ways separates the money from the labor. There will always be strife in that organization. Having a worker owned co-op also means that the profits don't go elsewhere - they go back to the people doing the labor.
- late2part 8y ago
  Can you give some succesful examples where the workers are the investors themselves and decide collectively their future?
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    Mondragon , in the Basque region of Spain is a good example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation I don't read Italian, but there are a set of unemployment laws in Italy that roughly state - if there are 10 unemployed people who have an idea for a company, they can request all their unemployment insurance collectively and form a worker cooperative. Right now, there's more than 8000 such cooperatives in Italy. In Norway, Kantega is another such example. They're considered in the top 100 best workplaces in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantega https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantega Suma, a food collective, is another such example. Again, note the humane treatment of workers. Again, this is democracy in the workplace - the workers collectively decide how they are to be treated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suma_(co-operative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suma_(co-operative) Prof. Wolff had a dissertation he gave, which is on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s
  - carapace 8y ago
    http://www.windings.com/about-us/ http://www.windings.com/about-us/ > Windings Inc. is headquartered in New Ulm, Minnesota, with domestic and international production facilities and capabilities. Windings maintains the highest standards in manufacturing, engineering, material management and concept development while achieving a global presence in the industry. > Our company was founded in 1965. The majority of our business is made up of the Industrial, Aerospace, and Defense markets. ... > In 1998, Windings Inc. formed an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan) for a planned purchase and transition of Company stock to the employees of Windings. The higher sense of responsibility that comes with employee ownership has made Windings even more responsive to customer needs and encourages innovation to bring greater value to its customers. In 2008, the company became 100% employee-owned.
  - 8y ago