4 ms·

As a small business owner I was expecting to read about employees padding hours, like clocking in during breaks or having a friend clock them in early. It's sh

As a small business owner I was expecting to read about employees padding hours, like clocking in during breaks or having a friend clock them in early. It's shocking that people would abuse their employees and that people put up with it.

49531 8y ago
In my experience small business owners commit wage theft the most. I've worked +80hrs/week for some small companies while only billing 40hrs because I was unskilled in an area with high unemployment. When your back is against the wall you compromise.
astura 8y ago
FYI, the term "wage theft" has a standard definition: employers stealing from employees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft
detcader 8y ago
> that people put up with it. This implies everyone has a choice, no? When employees changing jobs or getting legal assistance isn't easy is exactly when owners do these sorts of things -- it is understood and incentivized
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  "Choice" implies that they are just fine with doing it. More often than not, the victims think that they don't have any recourse, that they can't afford a lawyer or the time away from the new job to take care of it.
MisterBastahrd 8y ago
Shocking that they would abuse their employees? Most employees who work paycheck to paycheck are happy to just have a job most of the time and really can't afford to lose one. The most vulnerable people are always the easiest to abuse. There are various considerations here beyond actual pay. What happens when a person making low wages finds a steady job with regular hours? It means they probably don't have to figure out how to shuttle their kids between multiple daycares / babysitters. These go on and on. I know a person who made 9 an hour at a convenience store. Bad hours. Variable shifts. She got an offer to work for a non-profit hospital. Makes 13 an hour now with a set schedule (sorta), but lost her $500 a month SNAP benefits AND about $300 a month in daycare costs. If she gets a raise, she'll lose healthcare benefits for her kids, so her healthcare will essentially double (before any rate increases). She's proud to be making more money even though it's a net negative for her, and her employer has asked her regularly to cover other positions that get out later without getting extra pay. She would rather pick up the free hour here and there than have to deal with the hassle of going back to shift work. It's not like you can walk into the police office and tell the officer that your boss isn't paying you to work extra hours, and even if you did, other businesses would quickly decide that it wasn't worth hiring an employee who wanted to make what they agreed to work for.
- burfog 8y ago
  The combined effect of benefits cutoff is a huge problem. Think of the nationwide productivity loss due to people avoiding employment that would cause loss of benefits. It's called the "welfare cliff". Check out the shocking graph in this article and/or testimony. (same graph) http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/the-welfare-cliff-and-why-many-low-income-workers-will-never-overcome-poverty/ http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/the-welfare-cliff-and-why-m... http://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Erik-Randolph-Testimony-062515-HR-5.pdf http://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Eri... Assuming a 40-hour week (which could be 2 jobs) the worker will want to get $12 per hour. That is the local maxima. To get a better final result, after all the welfare and tax considerations, they'd have to earn $38 per hour. So if you have a job paying $12 per hour, and are offered one paying $37 per hour, you'll lose money if you take it. Basically, welfare keeps people down. It keeps them in low-paying jobs because people get punished when they aspire for better.
  - MisterBastahrd 8y ago
    Sorry, but that argument is without merit. In order to make $37 an hour, you're going to have to be a skilled employee with years of experience in most places or live in an area where $37 an hour is chump change. It's impossible to acquire those skills AND raise a family at the same time without either having money or having some other form of financial support. The vast majority of people on welfare aren't actively avoiding employment. That's a white myth people tell each other to comfort themselves regarding their own mediocrity.

49531 8y ago

In my experience small business owners commit wage theft the most. I've worked +80hrs/week for some small companies while only billing 40hrs because I was unskilled in an area with high unemployment. When your back is against the wall you compromise.

astura 8y ago

FYI, the term "wage theft" has a standard definition: employers stealing from employees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

detcader 8y ago

> that people put up with it. This implies everyone has a choice, no? When employees changing jobs or getting legal assistance isn't easy is exactly when owners do these sorts of things -- it is understood and incentivized

s73v3r_ 8y ago
"Choice" implies that they are just fine with doing it. More often than not, the victims think that they don't have any recourse, that they can't afford a lawyer or the time away from the new job to take care of it.

MisterBastahrd 8y ago

Shocking that they would abuse their employees? Most employees who work paycheck to paycheck are happy to just have a job most of the time and really can't afford to lose one. The most vulnerable people are always the easiest to abuse. There are various considerations here beyond actual pay. What happens when a person making low wages finds a steady job with regular hours? It means they probably don't have to figure out how to shuttle their kids between multiple daycares / babysitters. These go on and on. I know a person who made 9 an hour at a convenience store. Bad hours. Variable shifts. She got an offer to work for a non-profit hospital. Makes 13 an hour now with a set schedule (sorta), but lost her $500 a month SNAP benefits AND about $300 a month in daycare costs. If she gets a raise, she'll lose healthcare benefits for her kids, so her healthcare will essentially double (before any rate increases). She's proud to be making more money even though it's a net negative for her, and her employer has asked her regularly to cover other positions that get out later without getting extra pay. She would rather pick up the free hour here and there than have to deal with the hassle of going back to shift work. It's not like you can walk into the police office and tell the officer that your boss isn't paying you to work extra hours, and even if you did, other businesses would quickly decide that it wasn't worth hiring an employee who wanted to make what they agreed to work for.

burfog 8y ago
The combined effect of benefits cutoff is a huge problem. Think of the nationwide productivity loss due to people avoiding employment that would cause loss of benefits. It's called the "welfare cliff". Check out the shocking graph in this article and/or testimony. (same graph) http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/the-welfare-cliff-and-why-many-low-income-workers-will-never-overcome-poverty/ http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/the-welfare-cliff-and-why-m... http://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Erik-Randolph-Testimony-062515-HR-5.pdf http://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Eri... Assuming a 40-hour week (which could be 2 jobs) the worker will want to get $12 per hour. That is the local maxima. To get a better final result, after all the welfare and tax considerations, they'd have to earn $38 per hour. So if you have a job paying $12 per hour, and are offered one paying $37 per hour, you'll lose money if you take it. Basically, welfare keeps people down. It keeps them in low-paying jobs because people get punished when they aspire for better.
- MisterBastahrd 8y ago
  Sorry, but that argument is without merit. In order to make $37 an hour, you're going to have to be a skilled employee with years of experience in most places or live in an area where $37 an hour is chump change. It's impossible to acquire those skills AND raise a family at the same time without either having money or having some other form of financial support. The vast majority of people on welfare aren't actively avoiding employment. That's a white myth people tell each other to comfort themselves regarding their own mediocrity.