4 ms·

Fast forward few years later - web is made of executables and openness and user control is gone.

by llukas 8y ago

cm2187 8y ago
To be honest minimised JavaScript code isn’t much more readable.
- ethanwillis 8y ago
  This is why Stallman says we need to push to have a link out to the un-minified (or in this case source code that led to the WASM) so that people can go and read the source.
  - ben-schaaf 8y ago
    We already have this, there's nothing stopping you from using source maps in production. They're automatically loaded by browsers and can contain the full source code.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
oblio 8y ago
That’s a big downside and something I don’t like. But if we get actual universal bytecode out of it, it will have been worth it. Every platform out there, with the same bytecode and with a myriad of OSS languages out there able to target everything under the sun. It would take us out of the dark ages of having everything in C cause lowest common denominator...
- llukas 8y ago
  1995 wants its Java 1.0 back ;)
  - oblio 8y ago
    Java doesn’t run on iOS. Java doesn’t run on many, many other devices (which do support web techs). Java is controlled by Oracle. WASM is not the same thing. Administrative and human factors matter.
    - llukas 8y ago
      You missed that I'm not comparing existing Java to WebAssembly? Promises and hopes around Java 1.0 are very similar to WebAssembly.
      - oblio 8y ago
        Java was promoted mainly by 1 company. Web techs are made in agreement by a consortium of Mozilla, Apple, Google, Microsoft. This has a way better long term shot at making it.
        llukas 8y ago
        Maybe this one has better shot at making it. I beg to differ about 1 company though (article from 1998): https://www.javaworld.com/article/2076748/java-web-development/which-java-vm-scales-best-.html https://www.javaworld.com/article/2076748/java-web-developme...
  - dnomad 8y ago
    Honestly the whole thing is like a bizarro Java world. Everything is significantly worse than the comparative technologies, some of which are 20+ years old. package.json is worse than pom.xml, build.ts is a bizarro build.gradle, and the vm itself doesn't even begin to compare. There's some kind of market failure going on when browser providers are devoting millions of dollars to poorly reinvent the wheel. On Android we'll be seeing 3 VMs running on top of each other. It's insanity. Frankly it does not inspire confidence in the future of browsers as a platform.
    - etatoby 8y ago
krapp 8y ago
Just like when the entire web was Flash and Silverlight?
etatoby 8y ago
Choose HTML5. Choose Node. Choose your fucking social networking sites. Choose open APIs and a per-year subscription model. Choose microformats, micropayments, and SOA. Choose targeted mobile advertising. Choose user-contributed content. Choose your widgets in a range of matching Bootstrap colors. Choose a CDN, or two, or three. Choose the long-tail and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose surfing on that walled-garden device, a machine you paid for but do not own, watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing videos, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up followers you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose WebAssembly. (Not my idea, I just updated it for the times. Please don't mod down for foul language kthx, it's a homage to the original.)
- gitgud 8y ago
  What is this? Web Assembly (from the parent comment) will not be a choice for users right?
  - wyldfire 8y ago
    It's along the lines of the opening to "Trainspotting" a famous novel and film [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trainspotting_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trainspotting_(film)
    - gitgud 8y ago
      Ahhh thanks, I remember now!

Fast forward few years later - web is made of executables and openness and user control is gone.

by llukas 8y ago

Fast forward few years later - web is made of executables and openness and user control is gone.

cm2187 8y ago

To be honest minimised JavaScript code isn’t much more readable.

ethanwillis 8y ago
This is why Stallman says we need to push to have a link out to the un-minified (or in this case source code that led to the WASM) so that people can go and read the source.
- ben-schaaf 8y ago
  We already have this, there's nothing stopping you from using source maps in production. They're automatically loaded by browsers and can contain the full source code.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

oblio 8y ago

That’s a big downside and something I don’t like. But if we get actual universal bytecode out of it, it will have been worth it. Every platform out there, with the same bytecode and with a myriad of OSS languages out there able to target everything under the sun. It would take us out of the dark ages of having everything in C cause lowest common denominator...

llukas 8y ago
1995 wants its Java 1.0 back ;)
- oblio 8y ago
  Java doesn’t run on iOS. Java doesn’t run on many, many other devices (which do support web techs). Java is controlled by Oracle. WASM is not the same thing. Administrative and human factors matter.
  - llukas 8y ago
    You missed that I'm not comparing existing Java to WebAssembly? Promises and hopes around Java 1.0 are very similar to WebAssembly.
    - oblio 8y ago
      Java was promoted mainly by 1 company. Web techs are made in agreement by a consortium of Mozilla, Apple, Google, Microsoft. This has a way better long term shot at making it.
      - llukas 8y ago
        Maybe this one has better shot at making it. I beg to differ about 1 company though (article from 1998): https://www.javaworld.com/article/2076748/java-web-development/which-java-vm-scales-best-.html https://www.javaworld.com/article/2076748/java-web-developme...
- dnomad 8y ago
  Honestly the whole thing is like a bizarro Java world. Everything is significantly worse than the comparative technologies, some of which are 20+ years old. package.json is worse than pom.xml, build.ts is a bizarro build.gradle, and the vm itself doesn't even begin to compare. There's some kind of market failure going on when browser providers are devoting millions of dollars to poorly reinvent the wheel. On Android we'll be seeing 3 VMs running on top of each other. It's insanity. Frankly it does not inspire confidence in the future of browsers as a platform.
  - etatoby 8y ago

krapp 8y ago

Just like when the entire web was Flash and Silverlight?

etatoby 8y ago

Choose HTML5. Choose Node. Choose your fucking social networking sites. Choose open APIs and a per-year subscription model. Choose microformats, micropayments, and SOA. Choose targeted mobile advertising. Choose user-contributed content. Choose your widgets in a range of matching Bootstrap colors. Choose a CDN, or two, or three. Choose the long-tail and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose surfing on that walled-garden device, a machine you paid for but do not own, watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing videos, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up followers you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose WebAssembly. (Not my idea, I just updated it for the times. Please don't mod down for foul language kthx, it's a homage to the original.)

gitgud 8y ago
What is this? Web Assembly (from the parent comment) will not be a choice for users right?
- wyldfire 8y ago
  It's along the lines of the opening to "Trainspotting" a famous novel and film [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trainspotting_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trainspotting_(film)
  - gitgud 8y ago
    Ahhh thanks, I remember now!