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Oh there are so many reasons. The easiest is the adoption problem, the same as hit HTTPS: at least 40% of top websites are still unencrypted even after a massiv
by drostie 8y ago
Oh there are so many reasons. The easiest is the adoption problem, the same as hit HTTPS: at least 40% of top websites are still unencrypted even after a massive push from browsers to muscle them into submission; compare to the fact that with no massive push 90% of the ones that do support HTTPS don’t support SSL (they only support TLS, the old standard having severe security flaws). In other words there are concrete numbers to back up the point that when an algorithm is learned to be broken, it is easy to convince panicking folks to upgrade it. But when it simply doesn't exist and hasn't ever, it is harder to convince folks that they need it.
Even more to the point, attacks do not exist in isolation and there is no “secure/insecure” dichotomy. You can see this with AES where the AES-256 key schedule is much weaker than the AES-192 key schedule, but the place where this really shines is in related-key attacks, where AES-192 has about twice the bit-strength of AES-256. Does that mean you should switch over? Well, probably not: related key attacks are structurally harder to pull off.
The qualitative differences make comparison hard. Probably if the NSA had an exploit for Speck for example, it would take the form of "steal the device running Speck for an hour to get some carefully chosen challenge-response pairs, return it back to the user, budget a day or two of time on the supercomputer to look for patterns in that data, and finally you can recover the key." (I say this in part because it’s hard to hide backdoors in symmetric crypto.) Many applications would be more secure than nothing if that were the only applicable threat model.
But even quantitatively, in theory security is not a binary. It's much closer to a dollar amount: here is how much it costs to launch attacks against this system. And $0 on this scale is certainly lower than a serious vulnerability at the $100,000 level.
Basically this is a solid argument why you should not roll your own crypto but those arguments are categorically not transferable to crypto whose specifications are known openly and subjects of active cryptanalysis.
- memory_grep 8y agothe ones that do support HTTPS don’t support SSL (they only support TLS, the old standard having severe security flaws) Isn't TLS the successor to SSL?
- tialaramex 8y agoYes, but I think your parent's point is that the sites which enable HTTPS _did_ choose to remove support for known-broken protocols versions, so you've got on the one hand people who cared at all, all doing something vaguely modern and secure, and people who did nothing (plain HTTP), with no security. You can think of TLS 1.0 as essentially SSLv3.1, with TLS 1.1 and TLS 1.2 then as SSLv3.2 and SSLv3.3 And you might think of this as the normal course of any versioned system - tinnier and tinnier changes, except TLS 1.3 (now awaiting publication) is basically completely fresh, it only looks similar on the wire until encryption switches on, in order to maximise compatibility with legacy middleboxes, once it penetrates the middleboxes it's nothing like SSLv3.