4 ms·

Did Little Bobby Tables migrate to Sweden?

83 points by Kafka 16y ago

eru 16y ago
Are those only the names of the candidates?
- Kafka 16y ago
  No, it's hand written names of parties. Most of them of parties that doesn't exist.
  - eru 16y ago
    OK. Do hand written names count in Sweden? That's interesting. (I know that in Germany, every ballot that has anything but one or two Xs on it, is discarded as invalid.)
    - Kafka 16y ago
      If it's an exact name of a party then it will be included. Almost all voters use the pre-printed ballots though.
      - Muzza 16y ago
        To clarify: to be valid, a hand-written ballot needs to identify the party without there being any confusion. Thus, a ballot saying "Fp" will be counted as a vote for Folkpartiet, but "Socialmoderaterna" would be invalid.
        dLuna 16y ago
        To clarify this further. This is true if the party in question has ordered ballot papers from the central voting authority. This is (strangely enough) a different thing from being a runner in the election. So "Donald Duck" and "DONALD DUCK" would count the same iff someone has ordered official ballot paper for Donald Duck party (or similar). They would (or at least should) count individually if not.
        eru 16y ago
        Could I run as DONALD DUCK, if Donald Duck was already in the race?
        dLuna 16y ago
        Don't know. You do need 1500 signatures or so to run though.
miguelpais 16y ago
I didn't get it. I'm assuming the majority of the people voted electronically. So, are these votes the traditional ones? If so, why do they allow a text area on it? Is the person supposed tho write the name of the candidate instead of selecting it from the options available?
- philwelch 16y ago
  Many places allow a "write-in" option on the ballot, where you can vote for a candidate who isn't otherwise listed by writing in their name.
- Kafka 16y ago
  No electronic voting in Sweden at all but the election workers had to type in the hand written votes, not only, to be able to publish them online.
Locke1689 16y ago
What's with the XKCD reference? SQL injection and XSS existed long before Munroe made a half-decent joke about it. I see no reason why we should assume the author reads XKCD. Edit: Sorry, I meant author of the blog post. I know the HN title style guide.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  The author of the blog post, or the person who attempted the injection? Pretty sure the author's read it, since he's linked to the comic. Anyway, I think at this point it's a common enough reference that when you tell someone "Little Bobby Tables", they immediately associate it with SQL injection.
  - redcap 16y ago
    It's not so much that it's an SQL injection attempt, more so that it's an attempt through paper, which is the same as the Little Bobby Tables one.
    - sunir 16y ago
      I don't think that is the correct interpretation. It's not that it's through paper that it's "Little Bobby Tables". Little Bobby Tables is an injection through someone's name. In this case, the reference is because it's through the voter registration list--i.e. voters purposefully put a SQL injection in their voter registration. The analogy breaks down if you look too closely because it's in the party name field, not the voter name field. However, I think it's funny enough to stand notwithstanding the fact we're sitting around analyzing the joke.
- jacobolus 16y ago
  SQL injection attacks existed, but how many people try pen-and-paper SQL injection attacks, even as a joke?
- 16y ago
ZeroMinx 16y ago
This is stupid. If these people had voted properly maybe we wouldn't have racists in the Swedish government now
- mahmud 16y ago
  What if their politics wear leaning towards the "Racists" to begin with?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
henrikschroder 16y ago
Haha, I was contemplating posting this myself to HN, but since I don't have a blog where I could do a writeup and collect some links, I decided not to. For those that are confused, Sweden does not have electronic voting, and you can vote for anything, not just registered political parties. There's no list of parties where you are supposed to mark one, instead you get an envelope, and put in a ballot paper that contains the name of the party you are voting for. Normally you get a pre-printed one from the party you want to vote for, but you can also take a blank one and write whatever you want on it. Any ballot with something written on it is a valid vote which has to be counted and becomes part of the official election result. Since a few years back they started publishing these results on the website of the election authority, you can see the 2006 results here: http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/roster.html http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/roster.html The list of votes for registered parties that did not gain any seats are here: http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/ovriga.html http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/ovriga.html And finally, the list of write-in votes for non-registered parties is here: http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig_ovrigt/handskrivet/R/index.html http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig_ovrigt/handskrivet/R/i... So given this, it was just a matter of time before someone would use their vote to see if they could do a pen and paper scripting attack. :-)
- RK 16y ago
  There sure are a lot of votes for Donald Duck (Kalle Anka).
- eru 16y ago
  Thanks for the information about the Swedish system. > Sweden does not have electronic voting, and you can vote for anything [...] That's not very connected. You could easily imagine a free form electronic system. And the German system on the other hand is (or used to be?) completely paper based: You got a ballot with the names of all the parties / candidates, and placed a tick next to the name you liked. Any writing made the ballot invalid.
  - henrikschroder 16y ago
    > That's not very connected. You could easily imagine a free form electronic system. I can also imagine a multitude of ways electronic voting can fail or be manipulated without anyone knowing. Voter turnout was over 84%, and that number has been increasing over the last few elections. We do not have an accessibility problem. For the type of elections we have, the current system is a good fit. One person - one envelope. When the polling stations close the polling clerks take all the envelopes, open them, sort the ballots into valid and invalid piles, and then count the valid votes by hand. It takes a few hours, but we get a pretty accurate preliminary result on election night, and the process is completely open, anyone can watch the counting. After the preliminary counting all the ballots are sent in to the regional election authority office where they do a second counting where they also add in mail-in votes from Swedes abroad and other people who couldn't be there on the voting day. The second counting is also completely open, anyone can come and watch. Yes, it takes a few days to get the final result, but the confidence in the result is very high. Yes, there are occasional screwups, but it gets noticed, it gets reported, anyone can notice them, you don't need to a software engineer to have a chance at it.
erikstarck 16y ago
Also, the Pirate Party failed to reach the parliament. By far.

83 points by Kafka 16y ago

eru 16y ago

Are those only the names of the candidates?

Kafka 16y ago
No, it's hand written names of parties. Most of them of parties that doesn't exist.
- eru 16y ago
  OK. Do hand written names count in Sweden? That's interesting. (I know that in Germany, every ballot that has anything but one or two Xs on it, is discarded as invalid.)
  - Kafka 16y ago
    If it's an exact name of a party then it will be included. Almost all voters use the pre-printed ballots though.
    - Muzza 16y ago
      To clarify: to be valid, a hand-written ballot needs to identify the party without there being any confusion. Thus, a ballot saying "Fp" will be counted as a vote for Folkpartiet, but "Socialmoderaterna" would be invalid.
      - dLuna 16y ago
        To clarify this further. This is true if the party in question has ordered ballot papers from the central voting authority. This is (strangely enough) a different thing from being a runner in the election. So "Donald Duck" and "DONALD DUCK" would count the same iff someone has ordered official ballot paper for Donald Duck party (or similar). They would (or at least should) count individually if not.
        eru 16y ago
        Could I run as DONALD DUCK, if Donald Duck was already in the race?
        dLuna 16y ago
        Don't know. You do need 1500 signatures or so to run though.

miguelpais 16y ago

I didn't get it. I'm assuming the majority of the people voted electronically. So, are these votes the traditional ones? If so, why do they allow a text area on it? Is the person supposed tho write the name of the candidate instead of selecting it from the options available?

philwelch 16y ago
Many places allow a "write-in" option on the ballot, where you can vote for a candidate who isn't otherwise listed by writing in their name.
Kafka 16y ago
No electronic voting in Sweden at all but the election workers had to type in the hand written votes, not only, to be able to publish them online.

Locke1689 16y ago

What's with the XKCD reference? SQL injection and XSS existed long before Munroe made a half-decent joke about it. I see no reason why we should assume the author reads XKCD. Edit: Sorry, I meant author of the blog post. I know the HN title style guide.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
pavel_lishin 16y ago
The author of the blog post, or the person who attempted the injection? Pretty sure the author's read it, since he's linked to the comic. Anyway, I think at this point it's a common enough reference that when you tell someone "Little Bobby Tables", they immediately associate it with SQL injection.
- redcap 16y ago
  It's not so much that it's an SQL injection attempt, more so that it's an attempt through paper, which is the same as the Little Bobby Tables one.
  - sunir 16y ago
    I don't think that is the correct interpretation. It's not that it's through paper that it's "Little Bobby Tables". Little Bobby Tables is an injection through someone's name. In this case, the reference is because it's through the voter registration list--i.e. voters purposefully put a SQL injection in their voter registration. The analogy breaks down if you look too closely because it's in the party name field, not the voter name field. However, I think it's funny enough to stand notwithstanding the fact we're sitting around analyzing the joke.
jacobolus 16y ago
SQL injection attacks existed, but how many people try pen-and-paper SQL injection attacks, even as a joke?
16y ago

ZeroMinx 16y ago

This is stupid. If these people had voted properly maybe we wouldn't have racists in the Swedish government now

mahmud 16y ago
What if their politics wear leaning towards the "Racists" to begin with?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

henrikschroder 16y ago

Haha, I was contemplating posting this myself to HN, but since I don't have a blog where I could do a writeup and collect some links, I decided not to. For those that are confused, Sweden does not have electronic voting, and you can vote for anything, not just registered political parties. There's no list of parties where you are supposed to mark one, instead you get an envelope, and put in a ballot paper that contains the name of the party you are voting for. Normally you get a pre-printed one from the party you want to vote for, but you can also take a blank one and write whatever you want on it. Any ballot with something written on it is a valid vote which has to be counted and becomes part of the official election result. Since a few years back they started publishing these results on the website of the election authority, you can see the 2006 results here: http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/roster.html http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/roster.html The list of votes for registered parties that did not gain any seats are here: http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/ovriga.html http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig/R/rike/ovriga.html And finally, the list of write-in votes for non-registered parties is here: http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig_ovrigt/handskrivet/R/index.html http://www.val.se/val/val2006/slutlig_ovrigt/handskrivet/R/i... So given this, it was just a matter of time before someone would use their vote to see if they could do a pen and paper scripting attack. :-)

RK 16y ago
There sure are a lot of votes for Donald Duck (Kalle Anka).
eru 16y ago
Thanks for the information about the Swedish system. > Sweden does not have electronic voting, and you can vote for anything [...] That's not very connected. You could easily imagine a free form electronic system. And the German system on the other hand is (or used to be?) completely paper based: You got a ballot with the names of all the parties / candidates, and placed a tick next to the name you liked. Any writing made the ballot invalid.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  > That's not very connected. You could easily imagine a free form electronic system. I can also imagine a multitude of ways electronic voting can fail or be manipulated without anyone knowing. Voter turnout was over 84%, and that number has been increasing over the last few elections. We do not have an accessibility problem. For the type of elections we have, the current system is a good fit. One person - one envelope. When the polling stations close the polling clerks take all the envelopes, open them, sort the ballots into valid and invalid piles, and then count the valid votes by hand. It takes a few hours, but we get a pretty accurate preliminary result on election night, and the process is completely open, anyone can watch the counting. After the preliminary counting all the ballots are sent in to the regional election authority office where they do a second counting where they also add in mail-in votes from Swedes abroad and other people who couldn't be there on the voting day. The second counting is also completely open, anyone can come and watch. Yes, it takes a few days to get the final result, but the confidence in the result is very high. Yes, there are occasional screwups, but it gets noticed, it gets reported, anyone can notice them, you don't need to a software engineer to have a chance at it.

erikstarck 16y ago

Also, the Pirate Party failed to reach the parliament. By far.