6 ms·

How is Microsoft different exactly? Do they not engage in patents racketeering? Do they not spy on users of Windows 10? > like most (all?) other big tech com

How is Microsoft different exactly? Do they not engage in patents racketeering? Do they not spy on users of Windows 10? > like most (all?) other big tech companies "The other children are doing it" and then you're mother would say "that doesn't make it right". It's a child's defense no doubt. But anyway, it's also factually not true.

yani 8y ago
I reviewed the data that Microsoft has on me and there is nothing in there that makes me feel uncomfortable. Facebook on the other hand.. not only is the data wrong but if it gets public I can see it damaging me
- pritambaral 8y ago
  I just want to point out, aside from the discussion, that Microsoft owns a significant stake in Facebook.
gurkendoktor 8y ago
I'd say that Microsoft is worse than most other companies because it caters to governments, not consumers. Skype and MSN mysteriously worked in China at a time when no other service did. What's their incentive to push back against LE backdoors when they're not an edgy consumer brand anyway?
- youdontknowtho 8y ago
  "caters to governments" Corporations only exist as legal constructs. I'm not trying to be pedantic. I'm just saying that it is always going to be the case that a business, any business, will work within the law and with lawful government because they ultimately depend on contract and property law.
  - gurkendoktor 8y ago
    All companies have to comply with the law, but Microsoft sells lots of software to governments. They aren't going to put up a fight over end-user privacy if they make more money from gov't contracts than from privacy-conscious consumers. The financial incentives are completely different than for e.g. Apple, and I don't see how that is ever going to change.
    - youdontknowtho 8y ago
      All companies, including Apple sell lots of products to the government because, next to Walmart, its the largest employer in the country. It has a $4T budget. Apple doesn't give a s* about your privacy. They claim to give a s* about your privacy. Those are different things. If you want this to change you have to get involved with legislation to change the rules/law. That's the only option. None of them "care" about you or really anything, because they aren't human. Companies respond to changes in the law which bound the approved set of behaviors. That's it. EDIT: I got the budget wrong. Changed that.
      - gurkendoktor 8y ago
        I don't care what Apple claims to care about, just like I don't care about Microsoft's newfound love for free software (haha). However, I highly doubt that government and enterprise purchases make up a large share of Apple's income. And consequently I'm convinced that news of a backdoor in iMessage would cause Apple way more financial damage than these things did to Microsoft: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5728294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5728294, https://www.scmagazineuk.com/skype-backdoor-missed-by-microsoft-development-team/article/579696/ https://www.scmagazineuk.com/skype-backdoor-missed-by-micros... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-... And the more Apple doubles down on protecting its users, the bigger this financial incentive becomes. Of course that doesn't stop me from supporting better legislation (GDPR was a great start).

yani 8y ago

I reviewed the data that Microsoft has on me and there is nothing in there that makes me feel uncomfortable. Facebook on the other hand.. not only is the data wrong but if it gets public I can see it damaging me

pritambaral 8y ago
I just want to point out, aside from the discussion, that Microsoft owns a significant stake in Facebook.

gurkendoktor 8y ago

I'd say that Microsoft is worse than most other companies because it caters to governments, not consumers. Skype and MSN mysteriously worked in China at a time when no other service did. What's their incentive to push back against LE backdoors when they're not an edgy consumer brand anyway?

youdontknowtho 8y ago
"caters to governments" Corporations only exist as legal constructs. I'm not trying to be pedantic. I'm just saying that it is always going to be the case that a business, any business, will work within the law and with lawful government because they ultimately depend on contract and property law.
- gurkendoktor 8y ago
  All companies have to comply with the law, but Microsoft sells lots of software to governments. They aren't going to put up a fight over end-user privacy if they make more money from gov't contracts than from privacy-conscious consumers. The financial incentives are completely different than for e.g. Apple, and I don't see how that is ever going to change.
  - youdontknowtho 8y ago
    All companies, including Apple sell lots of products to the government because, next to Walmart, its the largest employer in the country. It has a $4T budget. Apple doesn't give a s* about your privacy. They claim to give a s* about your privacy. Those are different things. If you want this to change you have to get involved with legislation to change the rules/law. That's the only option. None of them "care" about you or really anything, because they aren't human. Companies respond to changes in the law which bound the approved set of behaviors. That's it. EDIT: I got the budget wrong. Changed that.
    - gurkendoktor 8y ago
      I don't care what Apple claims to care about, just like I don't care about Microsoft's newfound love for free software (haha). However, I highly doubt that government and enterprise purchases make up a large share of Apple's income. And consequently I'm convinced that news of a backdoor in iMessage would cause Apple way more financial damage than these things did to Microsoft: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5728294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5728294, https://www.scmagazineuk.com/skype-backdoor-missed-by-microsoft-development-team/article/579696/ https://www.scmagazineuk.com/skype-backdoor-missed-by-micros... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-... And the more Apple doubles down on protecting its users, the bigger this financial incentive becomes. Of course that doesn't stop me from supporting better legislation (GDPR was a great start).