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If you walk into a store and buy something, does the owner not have a right to record relevant personal information as it pertains to the sale, such as when buy

If you walk into a store and buy something, does the owner not have a right to record relevant personal information as it pertains to the sale, such as when buying a car? This idea that those vendors ought to be required to delete records seems backwards — you aren’t required to interact with entities that do things you don’t like — unless it’s the government, no escaping that. Public records are potentially more harmful than anything Facebook has. For example, I just shipped a 20 foot container of household goods to the US from France — that manifest, including my personal information is public record — I have to explicitly send a letter and request privacy for that shipment — and then remember to renew that request each year or else details of my entire shipment, including my address and contact information are available publicly. Thanks government. I can’t simply use another shipping company — it’s a government rule. When GDPR applies to governments, then I might become a fan, but as it is now, I am being “protected” from my Facebook likes or web history but what protections do I have from governments who traffic in my information. There is zero reason my shipment manifest needs to be known beyond Customs or the shipping company moving the goods, yet, here we are. Facebook never committed mass murder — but governments certainly have. Google Analytics data doesn’t have a realistic chance of causing harm — but someone with my address and a manifest of a shipment of expensive stuff results in a potential for real harm — that stuff is literally public record with absolutely no controls over who can buy that information.

FooBarWidget 8y ago
The owner of the store does have the right to record the sales transaction data. But that was never under dispute even with GDPR. GDPR specifically says that you do not have the right to be forgotten in the information is important for legal compliance (e.g. tax records), free speech, and a couple of other things. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da... See “when does [it] not apply?” GDPR already applies to governments. What makes you think it is not? https://www2.deloitte.com/nl/nl/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-in-the-public-sector.html# https://www2.deloitte.com/nl/nl/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-in-... > Starting May 25th 2018, all organisations, including those in the public sector, need to comply with the GDPR. Government agencies have been working their asses off to become GDPR compliant. If you have a problem with the way your shipping info is handled, file a complaint against that government agency at the French data protection authority. Please stop the FUD. The right to be forgotten has never been absolute and applies to both companies and government.
- mirimir 8y ago
  > GDPR already applies to governments. What makes you think it is not? This, for example: > Germany's spy agency can monitor major internet hubs if Berlin deems it necessary for strategic security interests, a federal court has ruled. > In a ruling late on Wednesday, the Federal Administrative Court threw out a challenge by the world's largest internet hub, the De-Cix exchange, against the tapping of its data flows by the BND foreign intelligence service. > The operator had argued the agency was breaking the law by capturing German domestic communications along with international data. > However, the court in the eastern city of Leipzig ruled that internet hubs "can be required by the federal interior ministry to assist with strategic communications surveillance by the BND". https://www.yahoo.com/news/german-spy-agency-keep-tabs-internet-hubs-court-092618037.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/german-spy-agency-keep-tabs-inter...
  - bigbugbag 8y ago
    Since when Germany's spy agency has been a government ? Also see the much controversed "legitimate interests" exemption to GDPR that has been carried over from the 1995 EU directive.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      If it's not part of the German government, they have a larger problem. My point is that Europeans overall are more comfortable with government snooping, and less comfortable with snooping by private interests, than Americans are. In practice, of course, American government agencies snoop far more than European ones do, but the American ones must be more covert about it.
  - SiempreViernes 8y ago
    GDPR has national security exemptions dude...
    - mirimir 8y ago
      I know that. So it doesn't necessarily apply to governments.
bigbugbag 8y ago
What you say is a gross misrepresentation of what GPDR is. First it allows to record and keep the relevant data for sales and legal requirements. Second it applies to government. Comparing facebook vs government is really a dumb fallacy, why would government be unable to use facebook for whatever ? and facebook to cooperate to that ? it is already happening, look at what happened in the Philippines with Rodrigo Duterte[1]. That you are unhappy with the US legal requirement to be able to ship cargo to their country[2] is unrelated to GDPR, maybe take your complaint to the relevant governement or regulation body. [1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodrigo-duterte-turned-facebook-into-a-weapon-with-a-little-help-from-facebook https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodri... [2]: excerpt from world shipping council to US customs II. Cargo Manifests: General Today a cargo manifest is the document that states what a carrier has loaded aboard a vessel for delivery to the United States. The creation, submission, and retention on board of the manifest are tasks that are the responsibility of the vessel carrier and are regulated by law and regulations. Proper manifesting is a requirement for allowing the entry of inbound vessels and for the issuance of a permit to unlade. We recognize that the cargo manifest has become a document that is used by the government to prescreen cargo for national security reasons. It was not designed for this purpose and has some limitations in this regard.
DanBC 8y ago
> This idea that those vendors ought to be required to delete records seems backwards GDPR doesn't introduce a requirement to delete data upon request.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

FooBarWidget 8y ago

The owner of the store does have the right to record the sales transaction data. But that was never under dispute even with GDPR. GDPR specifically says that you do not have the right to be forgotten in the information is important for legal compliance (e.g. tax records), free speech, and a couple of other things. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da... See “when does [it] not apply?” GDPR already applies to governments. What makes you think it is not? https://www2.deloitte.com/nl/nl/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-in-the-public-sector.html# https://www2.deloitte.com/nl/nl/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-in-... > Starting May 25th 2018, all organisations, including those in the public sector, need to comply with the GDPR. Government agencies have been working their asses off to become GDPR compliant. If you have a problem with the way your shipping info is handled, file a complaint against that government agency at the French data protection authority. Please stop the FUD. The right to be forgotten has never been absolute and applies to both companies and government.

mirimir 8y ago
> GDPR already applies to governments. What makes you think it is not? This, for example: > Germany's spy agency can monitor major internet hubs if Berlin deems it necessary for strategic security interests, a federal court has ruled. > In a ruling late on Wednesday, the Federal Administrative Court threw out a challenge by the world's largest internet hub, the De-Cix exchange, against the tapping of its data flows by the BND foreign intelligence service. > The operator had argued the agency was breaking the law by capturing German domestic communications along with international data. > However, the court in the eastern city of Leipzig ruled that internet hubs "can be required by the federal interior ministry to assist with strategic communications surveillance by the BND". https://www.yahoo.com/news/german-spy-agency-keep-tabs-internet-hubs-court-092618037.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/german-spy-agency-keep-tabs-inter...
- bigbugbag 8y ago
  Since when Germany's spy agency has been a government ? Also see the much controversed "legitimate interests" exemption to GDPR that has been carried over from the 1995 EU directive.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    If it's not part of the German government, they have a larger problem. My point is that Europeans overall are more comfortable with government snooping, and less comfortable with snooping by private interests, than Americans are. In practice, of course, American government agencies snoop far more than European ones do, but the American ones must be more covert about it.
- SiempreViernes 8y ago
  GDPR has national security exemptions dude...
  - mirimir 8y ago
    I know that. So it doesn't necessarily apply to governments.

bigbugbag 8y ago

What you say is a gross misrepresentation of what GPDR is. First it allows to record and keep the relevant data for sales and legal requirements. Second it applies to government. Comparing facebook vs government is really a dumb fallacy, why would government be unable to use facebook for whatever ? and facebook to cooperate to that ? it is already happening, look at what happened in the Philippines with Rodrigo Duterte[1]. That you are unhappy with the US legal requirement to be able to ship cargo to their country[2] is unrelated to GDPR, maybe take your complaint to the relevant governement or regulation body. [1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodrigo-duterte-turned-facebook-into-a-weapon-with-a-little-help-from-facebook https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodri... [2]: excerpt from world shipping council to US customs II. Cargo Manifests: General Today a cargo manifest is the document that states what a carrier has loaded aboard a vessel for delivery to the United States. The creation, submission, and retention on board of the manifest are tasks that are the responsibility of the vessel carrier and are regulated by law and regulations. Proper manifesting is a requirement for allowing the entry of inbound vessels and for the issuance of a permit to unlade. We recognize that the cargo manifest has become a document that is used by the government to prescreen cargo for national security reasons. It was not designed for this purpose and has some limitations in this regard.

DanBC 8y ago

> This idea that those vendors ought to be required to delete records seems backwards GDPR doesn't introduce a requirement to delete data upon request.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]