4 ms·

I don't think you're being truthful here. EVs actually do better in stop and go traffic than driving flat out at 75 mph, because of the lack of wind resistance

I don't think you're being truthful here. EVs actually do better in stop and go traffic than driving flat out at 75 mph, because of the lack of wind resistance and the ability to do regenerative braking. The Model X 75D has 237 miles range. At 504 miles total trip time, you should have had to make exactly 2 stops along the way. 5 would be completely unnecessary.

mentat 8y ago
"Being truthful"? Shall I send you my Google location history? The most bizarre accusation I've ever heard. Also I'd be shocked if anyone got the rated miles but you're definitely not going to get the rated miles up the Grapevine.
- illumin8 8y ago
  What's the Grapevine? You're basically claiming your Tesla got half the rated mileage with no proof. I'm sure thousands of Tesla owners would dispute the accuracy of this claim.
  - mentat 8y ago
    You don't know the geography of the drive but you have very strong opinions on what actually happened. Classic Hacker News nowadays. Let me know when you own a Tesla and drive it down to 5% battery.
    - SahAssar 8y ago
      Perhaps you could also explain what the "Grapevine" is?
      - mentat 8y ago
        https://lmgtfy.com/?q=grapevine+california https://lmgtfy.com/?q=grapevine+california
    - illumin8 8y ago
      I own a Model 3 long range, and have put about 2500 miles on it so far. I've always gotten pretty close to the estimated range. Even on extreme hills like Shoreline Highway heading to Agate state park beach, I didn't notice anything excessive. Remember, hills require more energy to climb, but you regain the energy on descent which is captured by regenerative braking. It's not 100%, but it's efficient enough that it doesn't make a significant difference. And, again, driving 20 mph through some switchback curves is a hell of a lot less wind resistance than driving 75mph on the freeway. I still say you need some evidence to back up the claim that you got less than half the rated range on a Tesla. You better believe the media would be all over it if that were true.
      - gamblor956 8y ago
        The Grapevine is a mountain pass from the Central Valley to LA County, approximately 20 miles long, with rolling hills, that goes up to 4100 feet of elevation gain. (But note that common usage is to refer specifically to a 5 1/2 mile stretch that is the steepest.) You're absolutely going to not get the rated battery life there.
        rconti 8y ago
        Meh. Even in my turbocharged car, I get virtually the same mileage in the mountains going from sea level to over 8000 feet and back down vs what I get on a wide open freeway, and that's WITHOUT regen. Obviously if you only go up but not down that's a different story, but mountainous driving is not nearly so hard on range if it's a net of 0.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    The Grapevine is a mountainous area between Los Angeles and the central valley. Would imagine the elevation and turns could seriously affect battery life but not sure how much. Makes me wonder if a solar panel hood/roof would help any.
ovao 8y ago
> EVs actually do better in stop and go traffic than driving flat out at 75 mph Is that necessarily true? The 75D has a curb weight of 5,140 pounds, which would require a fair amount of energy to get moving from a standing stop. While aerodynamic drag would certainly tax the powertrain to maintain 75 MPH (op didn’t specify anyway), one would expect the overall range at such speeds to be greater than in stop-and-go traffic. Or are regenerative brakes really that efficient at recapturing energy?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- floatrock 8y ago
  https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39842&id=39860&id=39786&id=39752 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39842&... Looking up published mileage of say a Tesla X, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, and Toyota Prius, all but the X have better city mileage than highway mileage (but the X is 86 MPGe city vs 89 highway, so even then it's only 3% difference). That's the neat thing about electrics and hybrids -- the "you get better highway mileage" intuition gets flipped by regenerative braking.
stephengillie 8y ago
> EVs actually do better in stop and go traffic than driving flat out at 75 mph, because of the lack of wind resistance and the ability to do regenerative braking. This may not be true for Teslas. Most EVs and hybrids will increase their regenerative braking when the brake pedal is pressed, and use mixed braking at slow speeds and hard stops. Teslas, however, maintain a constant rate of regeneration when not accelerating, and apply the mechanical brakes when the brake pedal is pressed, without increasing regeneration. Thus, Teslas waste most of their energy as heat when not driven in one-pedal mode. My Camry Hybrid has a "CHG" section on the lower "tachometer", where the needle dips when I press the brake pedal. Braking carefully to a full stop from freeway speeds regenerates enough energy to maintain 35-40 mph for 10-15 miles. Often I can get above the estimated 40mpg (sometimes over 50mpg) in stop-and-go freeway traffic, rolling along on battery, only using the engine for a few seconds to occasionally sharply accelerate. The Model 3's abysmal (and recently improved) stopping distance may have something to do with this. Many EV enthusiasts tout the reduced stopping distance benefit of mixed braking. However, Teslas do not currently perform this sort of mixed braking, so they miss out on this benefit. Could it be a software update away?
- greglindahl 8y ago
  I've driven a Tesla many times in stop-and-go: one-pedal is not hard to do nearly 100% of the time. No heat waste, and the energy graph shows lower than usual usage per mile.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    How quickly do Teslas come to a stop from 60mph in one-pedal mode? Do you often use the brake pedal when coming to a full stop on the freeway?
- illumin8 8y ago
  I rarely ever touch the brake pedal on my Tesla M3, except once the car has reached almost a complete stop. Unless you're braking hard for an unexpected stop, one pedal driving can easily slow you from 75mph down to almost 0 on a freeway off ramp (and recover that kinetic energy as charge).
dang 8y ago
That first sentence crosses into personal incivility and so breaks the site guidelines. Please edit such swipes out of your comments here. They degrade discussion and provoke worse. The rest of your comment is fine. If something doesn't add up or make sense, you can always express that without accusing someone of lying; for example, by asking a simple question. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mentat 8y ago

"Being truthful"? Shall I send you my Google location history? The most bizarre accusation I've ever heard. Also I'd be shocked if anyone got the rated miles but you're definitely not going to get the rated miles up the Grapevine.

illumin8 8y ago
What's the Grapevine? You're basically claiming your Tesla got half the rated mileage with no proof. I'm sure thousands of Tesla owners would dispute the accuracy of this claim.
- mentat 8y ago
  You don't know the geography of the drive but you have very strong opinions on what actually happened. Classic Hacker News nowadays. Let me know when you own a Tesla and drive it down to 5% battery.
  - SahAssar 8y ago
    Perhaps you could also explain what the "Grapevine" is?
    - mentat 8y ago
      https://lmgtfy.com/?q=grapevine+california https://lmgtfy.com/?q=grapevine+california
  - illumin8 8y ago
    I own a Model 3 long range, and have put about 2500 miles on it so far. I've always gotten pretty close to the estimated range. Even on extreme hills like Shoreline Highway heading to Agate state park beach, I didn't notice anything excessive. Remember, hills require more energy to climb, but you regain the energy on descent which is captured by regenerative braking. It's not 100%, but it's efficient enough that it doesn't make a significant difference. And, again, driving 20 mph through some switchback curves is a hell of a lot less wind resistance than driving 75mph on the freeway. I still say you need some evidence to back up the claim that you got less than half the rated range on a Tesla. You better believe the media would be all over it if that were true.
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      The Grapevine is a mountain pass from the Central Valley to LA County, approximately 20 miles long, with rolling hills, that goes up to 4100 feet of elevation gain. (But note that common usage is to refer specifically to a 5 1/2 mile stretch that is the steepest.) You're absolutely going to not get the rated battery life there.
      - rconti 8y ago
        Meh. Even in my turbocharged car, I get virtually the same mileage in the mountains going from sea level to over 8000 feet and back down vs what I get on a wide open freeway, and that's WITHOUT regen. Obviously if you only go up but not down that's a different story, but mountainous driving is not nearly so hard on range if it's a net of 0.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  The Grapevine is a mountainous area between Los Angeles and the central valley. Would imagine the elevation and turns could seriously affect battery life but not sure how much. Makes me wonder if a solar panel hood/roof would help any.

ovao 8y ago

> EVs actually do better in stop and go traffic than driving flat out at 75 mph Is that necessarily true? The 75D has a curb weight of 5,140 pounds, which would require a fair amount of energy to get moving from a standing stop. While aerodynamic drag would certainly tax the powertrain to maintain 75 MPH (op didn’t specify anyway), one would expect the overall range at such speeds to be greater than in stop-and-go traffic. Or are regenerative brakes really that efficient at recapturing energy?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
floatrock 8y ago
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39842&id=39860&id=39786&id=39752 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39842&... Looking up published mileage of say a Tesla X, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, and Toyota Prius, all but the X have better city mileage than highway mileage (but the X is 86 MPGe city vs 89 highway, so even then it's only 3% difference). That's the neat thing about electrics and hybrids -- the "you get better highway mileage" intuition gets flipped by regenerative braking.

stephengillie 8y ago

> EVs actually do better in stop and go traffic than driving flat out at 75 mph, because of the lack of wind resistance and the ability to do regenerative braking. This may not be true for Teslas. Most EVs and hybrids will increase their regenerative braking when the brake pedal is pressed, and use mixed braking at slow speeds and hard stops. Teslas, however, maintain a constant rate of regeneration when not accelerating, and apply the mechanical brakes when the brake pedal is pressed, without increasing regeneration. Thus, Teslas waste most of their energy as heat when not driven in one-pedal mode. My Camry Hybrid has a "CHG" section on the lower "tachometer", where the needle dips when I press the brake pedal. Braking carefully to a full stop from freeway speeds regenerates enough energy to maintain 35-40 mph for 10-15 miles. Often I can get above the estimated 40mpg (sometimes over 50mpg) in stop-and-go freeway traffic, rolling along on battery, only using the engine for a few seconds to occasionally sharply accelerate. The Model 3's abysmal (and recently improved) stopping distance may have something to do with this. Many EV enthusiasts tout the reduced stopping distance benefit of mixed braking. However, Teslas do not currently perform this sort of mixed braking, so they miss out on this benefit. Could it be a software update away?

greglindahl 8y ago
I've driven a Tesla many times in stop-and-go: one-pedal is not hard to do nearly 100% of the time. No heat waste, and the energy graph shows lower than usual usage per mile.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  How quickly do Teslas come to a stop from 60mph in one-pedal mode? Do you often use the brake pedal when coming to a full stop on the freeway?
illumin8 8y ago
I rarely ever touch the brake pedal on my Tesla M3, except once the car has reached almost a complete stop. Unless you're braking hard for an unexpected stop, one pedal driving can easily slow you from 75mph down to almost 0 on a freeway off ramp (and recover that kinetic energy as charge).

dang 8y ago

That first sentence crosses into personal incivility and so breaks the site guidelines. Please edit such swipes out of your comments here. They degrade discussion and provoke worse. The rest of your comment is fine. If something doesn't add up or make sense, you can always express that without accusing someone of lying; for example, by asking a simple question. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html