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> If you want none of your personal info on the web, I have a suggestion: Don't participate in forums, social media, etc. sensible regulation that defines work

> If you want none of your personal info on the web, I have a suggestion: Don't participate in forums, social media, etc. sensible regulation that defines workable limits of what personal information can be collected, combined with requirements for anonymization when needed is a better solution.

djrogers 8y ago
Some of the early results we are seeing from GDPR make one question how ‘sensible’ it really is.
- sverige 8y ago
  This is exactly what happens when you look to lawyers to solve social problems.
  - zerostar07 8y ago
    .. or tecnnological
- bigbugbag 8y ago
  Let's not forget that GDPR has been introduced to enforce a law that already existed but worked on voluntary self-regulation basis and as such was fully ignored but pretty much every actor. GDPR is also quite weak in this regard as it has few new additions: explicit consent (thanks to snowden exposing prism and despite the largest lobbying campaign against it orchestrated by silicon valley[1]), max possible fine increased so actor like google and facebook would stop paying 150,000€ fines right and left while laughing in the face of European laws, and class actions. Again it's only thanks to snowden revelations that the GDPR weakening personal data protection was overturned. The real change that matters is that now the law can and will apply. [1]: https://lobbyplag.eu/influence https://lobbyplag.eu/influence
- dasil003 8y ago
  Site operators who shut down their site preemptively because they don't have time to even consider their GDPR stance are not really a strong signal on how sensible the law is. In this case the operator's usage of the word troll to describe what happened is telling. Anyone can send any kind of threatening letter they want, and they are free to report you for non-compliance, but that doesn't mean any action will be taken against you, let alone actual fines. IANAL, but IMHO the chances of any solo forum operator being sanctioned by EU regulators is effectively nil—the purpose of the law is specifically to address usage of personal data, not old-school off-the-shelf forums and other one-off websites where the scope of the data is essentially the core of the service itself. You can argue the only thing that matters is the end result, but I'm not sure there's any way to write meaningful privacy regulation that will not generate a huge wave of FUD, especially with the traditional SV stance that we ought by default to have carte blanche to monetize user data in any way that's effective.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Site operators who shut down their site preemptively because they don't have time to even consider their GDPR stance are not really a strong signal on how sensible the law is. No, but it is a strong signal of my critique: That the EU is a 900 pound gorilla and that is a large part of the problem here. Small operators will, in fact, be impacted by this because they don't have the resources -- including time -- to cope with this and this will cause substantial fallout. Suggesting that "The details of the law are sensible" is not a rebuttal of the cincerns I am expressing.
    - dasil003 8y ago
      To change the practices of Facebook and the ad-tech world, you need a 900 pound gorilla or else nothing will change. All of this sky-is-falling punditry holding up small operators as examples is premature. Yes there is uncertainty, the landscape is changing, but it's not going to crush the little guy, mark my words.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Can you post to any of those results from the actual regulators? So far there have been a few people just giving up before the regulators get involved, which seems like a massive over reaction.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    That's basic survival for instinct for small shops. They may not be able to do X, but their entire life won't be crushed under the boot of Darth GDPR either.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      > but their entire life won't be crushed under the boot of Darth GDPR What a fucking stupid thing to say. GDPR requires a few things: don't collect too much data; be honest about why you're collecting it; allow corrections; in some situations allow deletion. This isn't a a boot crushing people.
      - DoreenMichele 8y ago
        What a fucking stupid thing to say. It's perhaps more poetic than is the norm here. That doesn't make it a fucking stupid thing to say. The reality is that since we don't yet know how this will play out, those who are risk averse, whether by personality or positioning (because some people just can't afford to take risks), will tend to flee from what could be a crushing burden. Furthermore, if someone is essentially in survival mode and can't spare the time and energy to read the GDPR and become confident they know how to deal with it, then just needing to read it and adapt can be a de facto crushing burden without any fines being levied.
      - dang 8y ago
        > What a fucking stupid thing to say. Would you please stop going on tilt like this on HN? You know we ban people for commenting this way. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

djrogers 8y ago

Some of the early results we are seeing from GDPR make one question how ‘sensible’ it really is.

sverige 8y ago
This is exactly what happens when you look to lawyers to solve social problems.
- zerostar07 8y ago
  .. or tecnnological
bigbugbag 8y ago
Let's not forget that GDPR has been introduced to enforce a law that already existed but worked on voluntary self-regulation basis and as such was fully ignored but pretty much every actor. GDPR is also quite weak in this regard as it has few new additions: explicit consent (thanks to snowden exposing prism and despite the largest lobbying campaign against it orchestrated by silicon valley[1]), max possible fine increased so actor like google and facebook would stop paying 150,000€ fines right and left while laughing in the face of European laws, and class actions. Again it's only thanks to snowden revelations that the GDPR weakening personal data protection was overturned. The real change that matters is that now the law can and will apply. [1]: https://lobbyplag.eu/influence https://lobbyplag.eu/influence
dasil003 8y ago
Site operators who shut down their site preemptively because they don't have time to even consider their GDPR stance are not really a strong signal on how sensible the law is. In this case the operator's usage of the word troll to describe what happened is telling. Anyone can send any kind of threatening letter they want, and they are free to report you for non-compliance, but that doesn't mean any action will be taken against you, let alone actual fines. IANAL, but IMHO the chances of any solo forum operator being sanctioned by EU regulators is effectively nil—the purpose of the law is specifically to address usage of personal data, not old-school off-the-shelf forums and other one-off websites where the scope of the data is essentially the core of the service itself. You can argue the only thing that matters is the end result, but I'm not sure there's any way to write meaningful privacy regulation that will not generate a huge wave of FUD, especially with the traditional SV stance that we ought by default to have carte blanche to monetize user data in any way that's effective.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Site operators who shut down their site preemptively because they don't have time to even consider their GDPR stance are not really a strong signal on how sensible the law is. No, but it is a strong signal of my critique: That the EU is a 900 pound gorilla and that is a large part of the problem here. Small operators will, in fact, be impacted by this because they don't have the resources -- including time -- to cope with this and this will cause substantial fallout. Suggesting that "The details of the law are sensible" is not a rebuttal of the cincerns I am expressing.
  - dasil003 8y ago
    To change the practices of Facebook and the ad-tech world, you need a 900 pound gorilla or else nothing will change. All of this sky-is-falling punditry holding up small operators as examples is premature. Yes there is uncertainty, the landscape is changing, but it's not going to crush the little guy, mark my words.
DanBC 8y ago
Can you post to any of those results from the actual regulators? So far there have been a few people just giving up before the regulators get involved, which seems like a massive over reaction.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  That's basic survival for instinct for small shops. They may not be able to do X, but their entire life won't be crushed under the boot of Darth GDPR either.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > but their entire life won't be crushed under the boot of Darth GDPR What a fucking stupid thing to say. GDPR requires a few things: don't collect too much data; be honest about why you're collecting it; allow corrections; in some situations allow deletion. This isn't a a boot crushing people.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      What a fucking stupid thing to say. It's perhaps more poetic than is the norm here. That doesn't make it a fucking stupid thing to say. The reality is that since we don't yet know how this will play out, those who are risk averse, whether by personality or positioning (because some people just can't afford to take risks), will tend to flee from what could be a crushing burden. Furthermore, if someone is essentially in survival mode and can't spare the time and energy to read the GDPR and become confident they know how to deal with it, then just needing to read it and adapt can be a de facto crushing burden without any fines being levied.
    - dang 8y ago
      > What a fucking stupid thing to say. Would you please stop going on tilt like this on HN? You know we ban people for commenting this way. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html