5 ms·

Maybe ten years ago I watched Bob Kennedy Jr or 3 or something talk about having battery swap stations instead of charging stations. Seemed interesting but I do

Maybe ten years ago I watched Bob Kennedy Jr or 3 or something talk about having battery swap stations instead of charging stations. Seemed interesting but I don't know much about batteries!

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
The problem with that is uneven wear. Unless the battery isn't owned by you, it won't work as well.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  For trucks one could easily see trucking companies just leasing batteries from Truck Stops. Where the truck driver stops, picks up a fully charged battery and then drops it off at another truck stop 300 miles later. Rinse lather repeat all the way from New Jersey to Utah. Compressed gas cylinders sort of work this way. When you 'refill' a cylinder you just swap the empty one for a full one. You can even swap different sizes as needed. Which might also be useful for trucks.
scrooched_moose 8y ago
Although great in theory, I can see two major obstacles to adopting that: 1) Essentially requires a standard battery form factor. Tesla alone already has between 8 and 13 batteries (not bothering to check if e.g. the Model S 60 is the same as the Model X 60). Throw in other manufactures and any future Tesla sizes and this becomes infeasible pretty quickly as your "gas station" begins to look like a warehouse. 2) Warranty. When you're swapping out the most expensive part of the car several times a week, what happens when you get a dud? Is it covered by Tesla's warranty, the swap service, or are you just screwed? Or, what if I trade in my 8 year old essentially depleted battery for a brand new one? Obviously I should pay some sort of "upgrade" fee, but tracking that will be a headache.
- samatman 8y ago
  Only one of these matters, and it matters a lot. Gogoro is doing quite well with scooters, because the battery pod is small enough to swap by hand.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  If the charging station (or network) refuses to again swap a battery that they have recently swapped into your car, why would anyone use it? I get that switching in $10,000 of hardware is kind of a big thing, but the question is like asking about how can I be sure every station has real gasoline (which hey, with ethanol, they don't!).
deejaybog 8y ago
Tesla entertained this for a while. The investments in building relatively costly (initial+maintenance) swapping stations plus the capital tied in replacement batteries makes this option less attractive when you compare to their supercharger station.
Gibbon1 8y ago
The battery swap thing I think is based on the idea that to be successful electric cars have to be an exact match of gasoline one. I think battery swap doesn't make sense for passenger cars because as the guy said once you hit 200 miles of range charging isn't an issue. And having to stop and charge for an hour and a half every three hours on a long distance trip isn't the end of the world. Especially since you could roll those into lunch and dinner stops. But likely makes some sense for large trucks.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  There's a drive I've been doing since I was a kid. Back then with fewer passing lanes and kids in the car, it always took about 6 hours. As passing lanes got added, it got so the trip was about 5 hours with careful stops. Recently speed limits got bumped up 5 MPH along the route and now it's an easy 5 hours. The hour sure matters to me, I hate being in the "travel" part of a trip like that.
runako 8y ago
Better Place was a startup that bet on this model. It didn't work out in their case, which is not to say it's necessarily a bad model. https://www.fastcompany.com/3028159/a-broken-place-better-place https://www.fastcompany.com/3028159/a-broken-place-better-pl...
camillomiller 8y ago
That is what Gogoro does (successfully, I think) in Taiwan with its electric scooters.
intrasight 8y ago
I am a proponent of battery swaps. But I use the term MPU - Modular Power Unit. They have a standard interface and standard sizes. They follow the principle of encapsulation - I don't know what is the tech inside, but I now that it exposes a given voltage and amperage. Neither battery companies nor car companies would on their own pursue such a strategy even though all would benefit. Portable electronics ony took off because batteries were standardized and became cheap. The same must eventually happen with large batteries. And just like small 3V and 10V batteries, there will be perhaps a half dozen different standard sizes. Some will be small enough to lift by hand (if you have strong hands) while others will be on racks (but built up from smaller MPUs). You don't have to swap your battery - they could be recharged in place. Standards will foster competition and innovation.

Maybe ten years ago I watched Bob Kennedy Jr or 3 or something talk about having battery swap stations instead of charging stations. Seemed interesting but I don't know much about batteries!

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago

The problem with that is uneven wear. Unless the battery isn't owned by you, it won't work as well.

Gibbon1 8y ago
For trucks one could easily see trucking companies just leasing batteries from Truck Stops. Where the truck driver stops, picks up a fully charged battery and then drops it off at another truck stop 300 miles later. Rinse lather repeat all the way from New Jersey to Utah. Compressed gas cylinders sort of work this way. When you 'refill' a cylinder you just swap the empty one for a full one. You can even swap different sizes as needed. Which might also be useful for trucks.

scrooched_moose 8y ago

Although great in theory, I can see two major obstacles to adopting that: 1) Essentially requires a standard battery form factor. Tesla alone already has between 8 and 13 batteries (not bothering to check if e.g. the Model S 60 is the same as the Model X 60). Throw in other manufactures and any future Tesla sizes and this becomes infeasible pretty quickly as your "gas station" begins to look like a warehouse. 2) Warranty. When you're swapping out the most expensive part of the car several times a week, what happens when you get a dud? Is it covered by Tesla's warranty, the swap service, or are you just screwed? Or, what if I trade in my 8 year old essentially depleted battery for a brand new one? Obviously I should pay some sort of "upgrade" fee, but tracking that will be a headache.

samatman 8y ago
Only one of these matters, and it matters a lot. Gogoro is doing quite well with scooters, because the battery pod is small enough to swap by hand.
maxerickson 8y ago
If the charging station (or network) refuses to again swap a battery that they have recently swapped into your car, why would anyone use it? I get that switching in $10,000 of hardware is kind of a big thing, but the question is like asking about how can I be sure every station has real gasoline (which hey, with ethanol, they don't!).

deejaybog 8y ago

Tesla entertained this for a while. The investments in building relatively costly (initial+maintenance) swapping stations plus the capital tied in replacement batteries makes this option less attractive when you compare to their supercharger station.

Gibbon1 8y ago

The battery swap thing I think is based on the idea that to be successful electric cars have to be an exact match of gasoline one. I think battery swap doesn't make sense for passenger cars because as the guy said once you hit 200 miles of range charging isn't an issue. And having to stop and charge for an hour and a half every three hours on a long distance trip isn't the end of the world. Especially since you could roll those into lunch and dinner stops. But likely makes some sense for large trucks.

maxerickson 8y ago
There's a drive I've been doing since I was a kid. Back then with fewer passing lanes and kids in the car, it always took about 6 hours. As passing lanes got added, it got so the trip was about 5 hours with careful stops. Recently speed limits got bumped up 5 MPH along the route and now it's an easy 5 hours. The hour sure matters to me, I hate being in the "travel" part of a trip like that.

runako 8y ago

Better Place was a startup that bet on this model. It didn't work out in their case, which is not to say it's necessarily a bad model. https://www.fastcompany.com/3028159/a-broken-place-better-place https://www.fastcompany.com/3028159/a-broken-place-better-pl...

camillomiller 8y ago

That is what Gogoro does (successfully, I think) in Taiwan with its electric scooters.

intrasight 8y ago

I am a proponent of battery swaps. But I use the term MPU - Modular Power Unit. They have a standard interface and standard sizes. They follow the principle of encapsulation - I don't know what is the tech inside, but I now that it exposes a given voltage and amperage. Neither battery companies nor car companies would on their own pursue such a strategy even though all would benefit. Portable electronics ony took off because batteries were standardized and became cheap. The same must eventually happen with large batteries. And just like small 3V and 10V batteries, there will be perhaps a half dozen different standard sizes. Some will be small enough to lift by hand (if you have strong hands) while others will be on racks (but built up from smaller MPUs). You don't have to swap your battery - they could be recharged in place. Standards will foster competition and innovation.