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California AB 2565, "Rental property: electric vehicle charging stations", passed in 2014, requires landlords approve all written requests from tenants to insta

California AB 2565, "Rental property: electric vehicle charging stations", passed in 2014, requires landlords approve all written requests from tenants to install EV charging stations (at the tenant's expense, with some reasonable caveats).

newnewpdro 8y ago
That's a step in the right direction, but at the tenants expense? CA should give the rental property owners an economic incentive to preemptively install the infrastructure. It's a very real barrier to adoption when you can't assume your next apartment will be able to charge your car immediately upon move-in.
- freehunter 8y ago
  My apartment doesn't provide me free gas for my car either. They don't even have a gas pump on-site! I asked them about it and they said "uh sure, if you want to pay for it". Absolutely ridiculous. Unbelievable.
  - floatrock 8y ago
    PG&E has two EV-specific rate plans: EV-A and EV-B. EV-B requires a dedicated meter so you can add it to your account and be billed for however much you use. The problem is it costs $500 for the meter plus labor (add another $1k for the charger and labor to hook the charger to the meter). So, we can discuss who is best incentivized to cover the fixed installation costs, but the "free gas" argument is irrelevant -- you just add the dedicated meter to your account.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Your apartment doesn't provide you with free electricity either, and nothing in my comment implied the electricity should be free. Your apartment does provide you with a minimum standard of infrastructure to run electrical appliances however, and it's not ridiculous or unbelievable for you to expect it. I think what you're missing is EVs have turned the automobile into another consumer electronics appliance. It's an oversized smartphone on wheels, surveillance features and all.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      So you're saying that the EV is an essential appliance like a refrigerator or a stove? That would be quite a change in POV from the usual advocacy against individual car ownership at all.
      - newnewpdro 8y ago
        Not quite, but I am suggesting if a rental property facilitates vehicle ownership in the form of parking/garage space, it should include EV charging capabilities to facilitate widespread adoption. Are you saying that since there's an agenda to reduce vehicle ownership altogether we shouldn't reduce barriers to EV ownership? That will only result in more ICE vehicle ownership, which is an absolute disaster from a climate change environmental crisis mode perspective. A significant factor with vehicles is they have a long servicable lifetime. Every year we drag on with people buying ICE vehicles instead of EVs is followed by decades of those additional ICE vehicles burning fossil fuels. Do you think we can achieve accessible alternative transportation solutions sooner than we can get hookups installed in all the already electrified rentals for EVs already available on the market? I don't think so.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      Everyone has a fridge. Everyone uses one. Everyone has a stove, and everyone uses one. Everyone uses electricity and natural gas, sure. How many Americans have EVs? My apartment doesn't provide a hookup for my MIG/TIG welder, and I'd be hard pressed to say whether more people own welders or EVs. Besides, more people drive gas powered cars, and like you conveniently ignored, very few apartments provide on-site gas pumps either.
      - newnewpdro 8y ago
        You're ignoring the glaringly obvious practical difference between already ubiquitous electricity service and gasoline. How many Americans have EVs is largely irrelevant. We're talking about California, and the figure of interest would be current and future California tenants having personal automobiles. This is about faciliating a future of widespread EV adoption in California. If tenants can reliably expect @home charging, even if it's just at a relatively low-current overnight pace, it turns the EV ownership story into substantially better than ICE vehicles. You're arguing as if we shouldn't be exceeding the quality and convenience of the existing ICE vehicle ownership experience. The whole point is EVs enable a better situation because electricity isn't gasoline, and you can (and already do) have it dispensed out of your outlets at home. Without taking advantage of this difference, unless we get EVs that can charge in a matter of minutes at the "pump", I'm afraid they won't substantially displace ICEs.
jpao79 8y ago
If a YC company hooked an Arduino with a charging meter mechanism and did some Square/Stripe integration and then deployed them to apartments such that it was an additional source of revenue for the landlord similar to a coin operated washer, there is the potential for some serious adoption.
- floatrock 8y ago
  https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/ https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/

newnewpdro 8y ago

That's a step in the right direction, but at the tenants expense? CA should give the rental property owners an economic incentive to preemptively install the infrastructure. It's a very real barrier to adoption when you can't assume your next apartment will be able to charge your car immediately upon move-in.

freehunter 8y ago
My apartment doesn't provide me free gas for my car either. They don't even have a gas pump on-site! I asked them about it and they said "uh sure, if you want to pay for it". Absolutely ridiculous. Unbelievable.
- floatrock 8y ago
  PG&E has two EV-specific rate plans: EV-A and EV-B. EV-B requires a dedicated meter so you can add it to your account and be billed for however much you use. The problem is it costs $500 for the meter plus labor (add another $1k for the charger and labor to hook the charger to the meter). So, we can discuss who is best incentivized to cover the fixed installation costs, but the "free gas" argument is irrelevant -- you just add the dedicated meter to your account.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Your apartment doesn't provide you with free electricity either, and nothing in my comment implied the electricity should be free. Your apartment does provide you with a minimum standard of infrastructure to run electrical appliances however, and it's not ridiculous or unbelievable for you to expect it. I think what you're missing is EVs have turned the automobile into another consumer electronics appliance. It's an oversized smartphone on wheels, surveillance features and all.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    So you're saying that the EV is an essential appliance like a refrigerator or a stove? That would be quite a change in POV from the usual advocacy against individual car ownership at all.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      Not quite, but I am suggesting if a rental property facilitates vehicle ownership in the form of parking/garage space, it should include EV charging capabilities to facilitate widespread adoption. Are you saying that since there's an agenda to reduce vehicle ownership altogether we shouldn't reduce barriers to EV ownership? That will only result in more ICE vehicle ownership, which is an absolute disaster from a climate change environmental crisis mode perspective. A significant factor with vehicles is they have a long servicable lifetime. Every year we drag on with people buying ICE vehicles instead of EVs is followed by decades of those additional ICE vehicles burning fossil fuels. Do you think we can achieve accessible alternative transportation solutions sooner than we can get hookups installed in all the already electrified rentals for EVs already available on the market? I don't think so.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    Everyone has a fridge. Everyone uses one. Everyone has a stove, and everyone uses one. Everyone uses electricity and natural gas, sure. How many Americans have EVs? My apartment doesn't provide a hookup for my MIG/TIG welder, and I'd be hard pressed to say whether more people own welders or EVs. Besides, more people drive gas powered cars, and like you conveniently ignored, very few apartments provide on-site gas pumps either.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      You're ignoring the glaringly obvious practical difference between already ubiquitous electricity service and gasoline. How many Americans have EVs is largely irrelevant. We're talking about California, and the figure of interest would be current and future California tenants having personal automobiles. This is about faciliating a future of widespread EV adoption in California. If tenants can reliably expect @home charging, even if it's just at a relatively low-current overnight pace, it turns the EV ownership story into substantially better than ICE vehicles. You're arguing as if we shouldn't be exceeding the quality and convenience of the existing ICE vehicle ownership experience. The whole point is EVs enable a better situation because electricity isn't gasoline, and you can (and already do) have it dispensed out of your outlets at home. Without taking advantage of this difference, unless we get EVs that can charge in a matter of minutes at the "pump", I'm afraid they won't substantially displace ICEs.

jpao79 8y ago

If a YC company hooked an Arduino with a charging meter mechanism and did some Square/Stripe integration and then deployed them to apartments such that it was an additional source of revenue for the landlord similar to a coin operated washer, there is the potential for some serious adoption.

floatrock 8y ago
https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/ https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/