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The site is down, but we're talking hardware here right? If it can't run MacOS natively, what's the point? I'm not buying Apple stuff necessarily because of the

The site is down, but we're talking hardware here right? If it can't run MacOS natively, what's the point? I'm not buying Apple stuff necessarily because of the nice form factor, I'm buying it for Unix environment that doesn't suck.

onlyrealcuzzo 8y ago
Ubuntu doesn't suck.
- barrowclift 8y ago
  I agree, it’s not fair to say it sucks. However, there is something to be said for having a Unix-based OS without having to sacrifice first-party apps. While Ubuntu and some other flavors have certainly gotten increased support from big players over the years (like Steam), for lots of people there’s still no substitute for the immediately available first party apps on Windows and macOS.
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  It does if you run it on hardware not bought with ubuntu in mind. To be fair, that's true of MacOS and Windows too, but Ubuntu makes it easiest to try / think it might be a good idea.
- overcast 8y ago
  It does when it doesn't run the software I need it to run. Specifically Capture One, and Unibox. Both vital to the work I do. The rest of the dev tools work under Linux, I will give you that. But the MacOS desktop experience is infinitely more polished. It's basically what Linux on desktop wishes it could have been for the last twenty years.
- TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
  I'm curious, for what reasons do you prefer Ubuntu over Debian? Now that Ubuntu dropped Unity and began defaulting to GNOME 3 it's even closer to Debian. The things they change from Debian are usually things I disapprove of, such as communicating with proprietary services. I think it also tracks user analytics by default, unlike Debian which shows you a modal during installation asking for permission to regularly keep track of your installed packages; and they set the default value to "disabled".
wooly_bully 8y ago
Windows Bash (their linux subsystem, based on Ubuntu) still has some quirks, but realistically I've found it to be a pretty seamless experience.
sanderjd 8y ago
To me, operating systems are a total commodity. Not because they don't matter, but because they're all really good now. But what matters a lot to me is really good hardware (trackpad, display, and build quality), and most importantly the integration between the hardware and the OS. This is why Apple wins, Linux loses, and Windows is in between (but much closer to Apple on the high end). That's the exact scale of how much investment each OS puts into integration with the laptop hardware it runs on. Notably, this is why I don't care at all what OS runs on my workstation: really good integration with a trackpad and display is unnecessary.
pretodor 8y ago
> The site is down It's available in Google's cache.[1] [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://char.gd/blog/2018/ive-finally-found-a-macbook-replacement-that-doesnt-suck&num=1&strip=1&vwsrc=0 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...
jjoonathan 8y ago
How is Windows Subsytem for Linux these days? Windows has plenty of warts that I doubt WSL will resolve (can't delete open files, spectacular suicide if you use symlinks or junctions on system resources, different administrative abstractions and CLI tools, that sort of thing) but I might be willing to give it a spin if someone other than microsoft says nice things about it.
- Jare 8y ago
  If you only want a Unix environment then it's overkill because you do have to deal with Windows and pay some perf / usability penalties. But as the place to do my unix-y things in a computer otherwise setup to run games and big software packages (Unity, Maya, etc) it is great and keeps improving.
- excalibur 8y ago
  For the (relatively common) use case of managing a mixed Windows and Linux server environment, the winning strategy these days seems to be to run your preferred Linux flavor inside a VM on a Windows host. In this scenario, WSL has been very useful for situations where I just don't want to fart around with the full VM. Now that Windows does SSH natively, I don't really have much need for it anymore.
- ms013 8y ago
  I use it daily for all of my development work (Ocaml, Python, LaTeX, vim, emacs, and a host of other tools, including X11 apps). It is the single biggest reason I was able to ditch my 2017 MacBook Pro a year ago for a Surface Book 2 after ~20 years of mac laptops and Lenovos running linux. I couldn't work with the terrible clacky keyboard they introduced - it didn't malfunction for me, I just loathed how it felt and sounded. Occasional friction when bouncing between apps on the Linux side and the Windows side sharing files, but as long as I work in /mnt/c/Users/USERNAME/ from the Linux side it isn't too bad. I don't buy the "I've used OSX for so long I can't possibly adapt my workflow to Windows" argument. It took me a few days to get used to the new idioms, but it wasn't that bad. Then again, I've been pretty OS agnostic for my career - Irix, SunOS/Solaris, Linux, OSX, and now Windows+WSL. Other than the part of my career when I was doing systems research and had to care about OS-specific details (e.g., writing Linux kernel modules), I haven't really found it hard to adapt to new environments and be happily productive.
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kjeetgill 8y ago
For what it's worth the aluminum unibody form factor for the macbook pro is its absolute most unique selling point for me. It keeps the body light, rigid, and cool. No plastic vents to form cracks. No flex when I hold it from a corner. No sweaty palms from the warm plastic. No seams around the screen to collect dust. Nothing I've seen comes close. If it wasn't a work machine I'd throw Ubuntu or Arch over it in a heartbeat. Mac OS isn't bad, it's just not close a good linux set up.
Joeri 8y ago
I use a mix of macOS and windows machines myself, and am doubtful that you're giving windows a fair assessment. macOS is a unix, but it's not a linux. You probably will end up running in containers anyway, because it's just too different from your servers (e.g. provisioning scripts will not run correctly), and windows supports those containers just fine. Even if you're not running in containers, you'll probably still be fine. I've been doing web dev for a while on windows and mac (node, php, java, ...) and haven't had major issues getting my workflows to carry over. The only thing that can cause problems are windows file path issues (or rather web app code assuming *nix paths), and for that there is WSL. Another possible thing you may like about macOS is the unix command line, which is a fair argument, but between msys, wsl and powershell (which is equally powerful yet different) I don't miss anything myself. Again, the command line tools on the mac are subtly different from those on linux, so your shell scripts don't automatically carry over to the server. YMMV. Finally we get to the UI. If you're hooked on mac-only software, ok fine. There are good alternatives though. For example, I switched from textmate to visual studio code so I could bounce between OS's. Otherwise I find it to be an even mix. Windows task view is similar to mission control. Windows does window docking better than the mac. The mac does system updates better than windows. Windows does gaming support better than the mac. The mac does consistent UI design better than windows. Windows has touch screens, the mac has better trackpads. It all balances out. I like living on both sides of the fence. It makes me feel like I'm not locked into a platform.
- overcast 8y ago
  I've used Windows my entire life, MacOS since 2008, Linux / Unix since 1998. I use all three daily, extensively. Mac is the easiest environment for me to manage work, and my life.

onlyrealcuzzo 8y ago

Ubuntu doesn't suck.

barrowclift 8y ago
I agree, it’s not fair to say it sucks. However, there is something to be said for having a Unix-based OS without having to sacrifice first-party apps. While Ubuntu and some other flavors have certainly gotten increased support from big players over the years (like Steam), for lots of people there’s still no substitute for the immediately available first party apps on Windows and macOS.
jjoonathan 8y ago
It does if you run it on hardware not bought with ubuntu in mind. To be fair, that's true of MacOS and Windows too, but Ubuntu makes it easiest to try / think it might be a good idea.
overcast 8y ago
It does when it doesn't run the software I need it to run. Specifically Capture One, and Unibox. Both vital to the work I do. The rest of the dev tools work under Linux, I will give you that. But the MacOS desktop experience is infinitely more polished. It's basically what Linux on desktop wishes it could have been for the last twenty years.
TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
I'm curious, for what reasons do you prefer Ubuntu over Debian? Now that Ubuntu dropped Unity and began defaulting to GNOME 3 it's even closer to Debian. The things they change from Debian are usually things I disapprove of, such as communicating with proprietary services. I think it also tracks user analytics by default, unlike Debian which shows you a modal during installation asking for permission to regularly keep track of your installed packages; and they set the default value to "disabled".

wooly_bully 8y ago

Windows Bash (their linux subsystem, based on Ubuntu) still has some quirks, but realistically I've found it to be a pretty seamless experience.

sanderjd 8y ago

To me, operating systems are a total commodity. Not because they don't matter, but because they're all really good now. But what matters a lot to me is really good hardware (trackpad, display, and build quality), and most importantly the integration between the hardware and the OS. This is why Apple wins, Linux loses, and Windows is in between (but much closer to Apple on the high end). That's the exact scale of how much investment each OS puts into integration with the laptop hardware it runs on. Notably, this is why I don't care at all what OS runs on my workstation: really good integration with a trackpad and display is unnecessary.

pretodor 8y ago

> The site is down It's available in Google's cache.[1] [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://char.gd/blog/2018/ive-finally-found-a-macbook-replacement-that-doesnt-suck&num=1&strip=1&vwsrc=0 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...

jjoonathan 8y ago

How is Windows Subsytem for Linux these days? Windows has plenty of warts that I doubt WSL will resolve (can't delete open files, spectacular suicide if you use symlinks or junctions on system resources, different administrative abstractions and CLI tools, that sort of thing) but I might be willing to give it a spin if someone other than microsoft says nice things about it.

Jare 8y ago
If you only want a Unix environment then it's overkill because you do have to deal with Windows and pay some perf / usability penalties. But as the place to do my unix-y things in a computer otherwise setup to run games and big software packages (Unity, Maya, etc) it is great and keeps improving.
excalibur 8y ago
For the (relatively common) use case of managing a mixed Windows and Linux server environment, the winning strategy these days seems to be to run your preferred Linux flavor inside a VM on a Windows host. In this scenario, WSL has been very useful for situations where I just don't want to fart around with the full VM. Now that Windows does SSH natively, I don't really have much need for it anymore.
ms013 8y ago
I use it daily for all of my development work (Ocaml, Python, LaTeX, vim, emacs, and a host of other tools, including X11 apps). It is the single biggest reason I was able to ditch my 2017 MacBook Pro a year ago for a Surface Book 2 after ~20 years of mac laptops and Lenovos running linux. I couldn't work with the terrible clacky keyboard they introduced - it didn't malfunction for me, I just loathed how it felt and sounded. Occasional friction when bouncing between apps on the Linux side and the Windows side sharing files, but as long as I work in /mnt/c/Users/USERNAME/ from the Linux side it isn't too bad. I don't buy the "I've used OSX for so long I can't possibly adapt my workflow to Windows" argument. It took me a few days to get used to the new idioms, but it wasn't that bad. Then again, I've been pretty OS agnostic for my career - Irix, SunOS/Solaris, Linux, OSX, and now Windows+WSL. Other than the part of my career when I was doing systems research and had to care about OS-specific details (e.g., writing Linux kernel modules), I haven't really found it hard to adapt to new environments and be happily productive.

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kjeetgill 8y ago

For what it's worth the aluminum unibody form factor for the macbook pro is its absolute most unique selling point for me. It keeps the body light, rigid, and cool. No plastic vents to form cracks. No flex when I hold it from a corner. No sweaty palms from the warm plastic. No seams around the screen to collect dust. Nothing I've seen comes close. If it wasn't a work machine I'd throw Ubuntu or Arch over it in a heartbeat. Mac OS isn't bad, it's just not close a good linux set up.

Joeri 8y ago

I use a mix of macOS and windows machines myself, and am doubtful that you're giving windows a fair assessment. macOS is a unix, but it's not a linux. You probably will end up running in containers anyway, because it's just too different from your servers (e.g. provisioning scripts will not run correctly), and windows supports those containers just fine. Even if you're not running in containers, you'll probably still be fine. I've been doing web dev for a while on windows and mac (node, php, java, ...) and haven't had major issues getting my workflows to carry over. The only thing that can cause problems are windows file path issues (or rather web app code assuming *nix paths), and for that there is WSL. Another possible thing you may like about macOS is the unix command line, which is a fair argument, but between msys, wsl and powershell (which is equally powerful yet different) I don't miss anything myself. Again, the command line tools on the mac are subtly different from those on linux, so your shell scripts don't automatically carry over to the server. YMMV. Finally we get to the UI. If you're hooked on mac-only software, ok fine. There are good alternatives though. For example, I switched from textmate to visual studio code so I could bounce between OS's. Otherwise I find it to be an even mix. Windows task view is similar to mission control. Windows does window docking better than the mac. The mac does system updates better than windows. Windows does gaming support better than the mac. The mac does consistent UI design better than windows. Windows has touch screens, the mac has better trackpads. It all balances out. I like living on both sides of the fence. It makes me feel like I'm not locked into a platform.

overcast 8y ago
I've used Windows my entire life, MacOS since 2008, Linux / Unix since 1998. I use all three daily, extensively. Mac is the easiest environment for me to manage work, and my life.