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Neat Now who do I have to nag to get laws passed compelling landlords to install charging infrastructure for tenants? This is my main barrier to replacing my

Neat Now who do I have to nag to get laws passed compelling landlords to install charging infrastructure for tenants? This is my main barrier to replacing my antique with an EV; most of the rentals I'm likely to occupy will not have access to charging.

BMFX 8y ago
My building just approved 10 (because that's all they can handle powerwise). Those 10 were on a first come first serve, for those willing to pay the $10,000 install fee.
pkaye 8y ago
How many charging stations would you expect? One for each parking spot?
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  We need something along these lines if we're being realistic about all the privately owned vehicles becoming electric. It's a major investment in infrastructure, this is the reality of EVs. I don't know how street parking gets handled at all, it almost requires wireless charging through the asphalt activated by simply parking over it. edit: At least until car batteries can be recharged as quickly as a gas tank is filled, then this is largely a non-issue. We're not there yet are we?
dangrossman 8y ago
California AB 2565, "Rental property: electric vehicle charging stations", passed in 2014, requires landlords approve all written requests from tenants to install EV charging stations (at the tenant's expense, with some reasonable caveats).
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  That's a step in the right direction, but at the tenants expense? CA should give the rental property owners an economic incentive to preemptively install the infrastructure. It's a very real barrier to adoption when you can't assume your next apartment will be able to charge your car immediately upon move-in.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    My apartment doesn't provide me free gas for my car either. They don't even have a gas pump on-site! I asked them about it and they said "uh sure, if you want to pay for it". Absolutely ridiculous. Unbelievable.
    - floatrock 8y ago
      PG&E has two EV-specific rate plans: EV-A and EV-B. EV-B requires a dedicated meter so you can add it to your account and be billed for however much you use. The problem is it costs $500 for the meter plus labor (add another $1k for the charger and labor to hook the charger to the meter). So, we can discuss who is best incentivized to cover the fixed installation costs, but the "free gas" argument is irrelevant -- you just add the dedicated meter to your account.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      Your apartment doesn't provide you with free electricity either, and nothing in my comment implied the electricity should be free. Your apartment does provide you with a minimum standard of infrastructure to run electrical appliances however, and it's not ridiculous or unbelievable for you to expect it. I think what you're missing is EVs have turned the automobile into another consumer electronics appliance. It's an oversized smartphone on wheels, surveillance features and all.
      - ams6110 8y ago
        So you're saying that the EV is an essential appliance like a refrigerator or a stove? That would be quite a change in POV from the usual advocacy against individual car ownership at all.
        newnewpdro 8y ago
        Not quite, but I am suggesting if a rental property facilitates vehicle ownership in the form of parking/garage space, it should include EV charging capabilities to facilitate widespread adoption. Are you saying that since there's an agenda to reduce vehicle ownership altogether we shouldn't reduce barriers to EV ownership? That will only result in more ICE vehicle ownership, which is an absolute disaster from a climate change environmental crisis mode perspective. A significant factor with vehicles is they have a long servicable lifetime. Every year we drag on with people buying ICE vehicles instead of EVs is followed by decades of those additional ICE vehicles burning fossil fuels. Do you think we can achieve accessible alternative transportation solutions sooner than we can get hookups installed in all the already electrified rentals for EVs already available on the market? I don't think so.
- jpao79 8y ago
  If a YC company hooked an Arduino with a charging meter mechanism and did some Square/Stripe integration and then deployed them to apartments such that it was an additional source of revenue for the landlord similar to a coin operated washer, there is the potential for some serious adoption.
  - floatrock 8y ago
    https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/ https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/
epistasis 8y ago
Even better than home chargers are workplace chargers, especially in California. We're getting enough solar on the grid that every spring we choose not to generate massive amounts of otherwise free electricity during the day. Rather than having stationary grid storage, dumping that the cars of people who are at work will provide a huge amount of grid flexibility. I'm not a huge fan of parking requirements in code, but it's a simple addition to require chargers for X% of the spots. The second part of the challenge is getting payment structures in place. Ideally utilities would be pushing forward with their own scheme so that charging would go directly to your usual utility bill. That way there's no middleman taking an extra 30% - 100% cut on the cost of the electricity, it reuses a convenient billing channel, and it also lets the utility start to do demand response to manage their oversupply of renewables. But utilities are both too short-sighted and boneheaded to realize that this could be a major win for them. They ought to be paying more attention because increased efficiency is decreasing demand for prior electricity loads.

BMFX 8y ago

My building just approved 10 (because that's all they can handle powerwise). Those 10 were on a first come first serve, for those willing to pay the $10,000 install fee.

pkaye 8y ago

How many charging stations would you expect? One for each parking spot?

newnewpdro 8y ago
We need something along these lines if we're being realistic about all the privately owned vehicles becoming electric. It's a major investment in infrastructure, this is the reality of EVs. I don't know how street parking gets handled at all, it almost requires wireless charging through the asphalt activated by simply parking over it. edit: At least until car batteries can be recharged as quickly as a gas tank is filled, then this is largely a non-issue. We're not there yet are we?

dangrossman 8y ago

California AB 2565, "Rental property: electric vehicle charging stations", passed in 2014, requires landlords approve all written requests from tenants to install EV charging stations (at the tenant's expense, with some reasonable caveats).

newnewpdro 8y ago
That's a step in the right direction, but at the tenants expense? CA should give the rental property owners an economic incentive to preemptively install the infrastructure. It's a very real barrier to adoption when you can't assume your next apartment will be able to charge your car immediately upon move-in.
- freehunter 8y ago
  My apartment doesn't provide me free gas for my car either. They don't even have a gas pump on-site! I asked them about it and they said "uh sure, if you want to pay for it". Absolutely ridiculous. Unbelievable.
  - floatrock 8y ago
    PG&E has two EV-specific rate plans: EV-A and EV-B. EV-B requires a dedicated meter so you can add it to your account and be billed for however much you use. The problem is it costs $500 for the meter plus labor (add another $1k for the charger and labor to hook the charger to the meter). So, we can discuss who is best incentivized to cover the fixed installation costs, but the "free gas" argument is irrelevant -- you just add the dedicated meter to your account.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Your apartment doesn't provide you with free electricity either, and nothing in my comment implied the electricity should be free. Your apartment does provide you with a minimum standard of infrastructure to run electrical appliances however, and it's not ridiculous or unbelievable for you to expect it. I think what you're missing is EVs have turned the automobile into another consumer electronics appliance. It's an oversized smartphone on wheels, surveillance features and all.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      So you're saying that the EV is an essential appliance like a refrigerator or a stove? That would be quite a change in POV from the usual advocacy against individual car ownership at all.
      - newnewpdro 8y ago
        Not quite, but I am suggesting if a rental property facilitates vehicle ownership in the form of parking/garage space, it should include EV charging capabilities to facilitate widespread adoption. Are you saying that since there's an agenda to reduce vehicle ownership altogether we shouldn't reduce barriers to EV ownership? That will only result in more ICE vehicle ownership, which is an absolute disaster from a climate change environmental crisis mode perspective. A significant factor with vehicles is they have a long servicable lifetime. Every year we drag on with people buying ICE vehicles instead of EVs is followed by decades of those additional ICE vehicles burning fossil fuels. Do you think we can achieve accessible alternative transportation solutions sooner than we can get hookups installed in all the already electrified rentals for EVs already available on the market? I don't think so.
jpao79 8y ago
If a YC company hooked an Arduino with a charging meter mechanism and did some Square/Stripe integration and then deployed them to apartments such that it was an additional source of revenue for the landlord similar to a coin operated washer, there is the potential for some serious adoption.
- floatrock 8y ago
  https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/ https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/apartments-and-condos/

epistasis 8y ago

Even better than home chargers are workplace chargers, especially in California. We're getting enough solar on the grid that every spring we choose not to generate massive amounts of otherwise free electricity during the day. Rather than having stationary grid storage, dumping that the cars of people who are at work will provide a huge amount of grid flexibility. I'm not a huge fan of parking requirements in code, but it's a simple addition to require chargers for X% of the spots. The second part of the challenge is getting payment structures in place. Ideally utilities would be pushing forward with their own scheme so that charging would go directly to your usual utility bill. That way there's no middleman taking an extra 30% - 100% cut on the cost of the electricity, it reuses a convenient billing channel, and it also lets the utility start to do demand response to manage their oversupply of renewables. But utilities are both too short-sighted and boneheaded to realize that this could be a major win for them. They ought to be paying more attention because increased efficiency is decreasing demand for prior electricity loads.