10 ms·

Microsoft has embraced Github with it's recent .Net core development, they are one of the largest contributors with some incredible cross platform dev tooling.

Microsoft has embraced Github with it's recent .Net core development, they are one of the largest contributors with some incredible cross platform dev tooling. C# is a pleasure and visual studio code is an excellent, extensible coding tool. Go forth Microsoft, the standard bashing in these communities is unjust.

moeadham 8y ago
I wonder what Linus Tovalds is thinking right now. If I remember correctly, he wrote Git because Perforce was forcing him to use Microsoft software licences. https://github.com/git/git/commit/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290 https://github.com/git/git/commit/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23...
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  Git != GitHub
- DaveMebs 8y ago
  Git was developed as an OSS clone of BitKeeper (which was originally provided freely to Linux kernel developers under the agreement that they not develop a clone). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitKeeper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitKeeper
  - cesarb 8y ago
    > Git was developed as an OSS clone of BitKeeper Git was not developed as a clone of BitKeeper, it has a very different design (snapshot-based content-addressed filesystem, versus the SCCS "weave"). If anything, git was a (much faster) clone of Monotone, minus the heavy cryptography focus which made Monotone so slow.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I lived through the 90s, so I disagree. Anyone who feels perfectly comfortable with Microsoft's embracing of things they like is ignoring history. Maybe it's different this time, maybe it isn't.
- ManFromUranus 8y ago
  Sort of like the ship of Theseus, if all the people working at and running microsoft are different, is it even the same company?
  - pathseeker 8y ago
    Culture can persist despite replacing all employees over time.
  - nol13 8y ago
    Well since companies are people, more like skin cells. They all get replaced every whatever days but you're still you!
- banachtarski 8y ago
  Microsoft has been changing a lot. Embracing linux in their cloud offering, offering unix as a subsystem on Windows, open sourcing their work. Anyone who likens the current MSFT to anything resembling what it was in the 90s hasn't been paying attention to the current leadership.
  - umjames 8y ago
    That's not to say they couldn't revert to their embrace, extend, and extinguish tactics of the 90s, even under future leadership. I feel that no big corporation should own GitHub, even if their investors feel differently.
    - danso 8y ago
      I'm not enthused about the idea of Github being bought. But on what grounds do you suspect that the Microsoft of the 90s is just lurking, like a conscious spirit, to reveal itself after a decade? CEO Nadella started working at Microsoft in 1992, but the executives who coined and lived the EEE phrase are all out. Is Nadella a sleeper agent? If not, what entity at Microsoft will subvert his leadership?
shmerl 8y ago
There is enough just criticism of Microsoft's bad practices that remain damaging to this day. So no, MS is clearly a bad steward for GitHub.
- tomnipotent 8y ago
  Yeah, let's evaluate corporations for decisions made decades ago by people no longer at the company. At least spend 15 minutes reading about the progress MS has made in recent years before throwing around shade.
  - shmerl 8y ago
    They can reverse those decisions. Yet they don't, because they benefit from it. So it's not a justification.
  - severino 8y ago
    Well, you know, this wasn't just an "insane" guy at the top who now left the company and everything's cool. Companies have culture, and while we can agree today Microsoft's not the same Microsoft from 10 years ago, we shouldn't forget their history so soon.
    - tomnipotent 8y ago
      > this wasn't just an "insane" guy at the top who now left the company and everything's cool Satya Nadella has completely re-organized MS inside-and-out since taking the helm in 2014. It is a VERY different company than it was even 5 years ago. In March [1], Microsoft even went so far as to officially disband the Windows department and merge it into something called "Experiences & Devices". [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176220/microsoft-windows-reorg-business-terry-myerson-ai-cloud https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176220/microsoft-window...
      - shmerl 8y ago
        It's different, but not very different. They still have a lot of lock-in like Outlook (ActiveSync), DirectX, exFAT and so on and so forth. They show no sign of dropping lock-in, except in markets where they are way weaker than competition.
mihaela 8y ago
C# is managed with GC, VS Code is Electron. MS has no native tools. QT rules that one.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  There's .NET Native, not to mention older techs like Win32.
  - mihaela 8y ago
    Not the same as real native like C++.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Probably news to the Win32 devs of the world that their technology is "not the same as real native like C++." What distinction do you mean to make here?
- Const-me 8y ago
  UWP is native, you can code rich GUI in C++ without any GC involved. Currently it only works for MS platforms (Windows incl. ARM, xbox, embedded) but they might make it cross platform in some future. Technically the API is not that complex, i.e. unlike WPF it’s not that hard to port from the current Direct3D to Vulkan or GLES or Metal.
doublerebel 8y ago
Microsoft has been relying on Github to share all of its UWP samples for the last few years. This year, they added all their developer docs to Github so they can be directly addressed and updated by the community. They've done a good job of responding to PRs and issues. I write Hololens software and I could not have achieved such rapid development without their examples and developer outreach. However, Github is one of my favorite services, professionally and for hobbies, and I really don't want significant changes. I also use VSTS (Microsoft's code+PM online service) and it is a beast. They don't need to be heavily intermingled.
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
cup-of-tea 8y ago
That code you mentioned has opt-out spyware. It's not in the spirit of free software at all. It's just part of embrace, extend, extinguish.
- the_trapper 8y ago
  Microsoft has never been about free software. They are however embracing open source in a manner that feels very sincere to me. For the record, the so-called "spyware" is telemetry which exists only in the SDK for .NET Core and not the actual runtime that you would ship to the user with the software. It is anonymous data, completely open source so it really is only what they say it is, and the first time you use it it tells you how to disable it.
  - cup-of-tea 8y ago
    > so-called "spyware" is telemetry Doublespeak.
sbr464 8y ago
Who is this guy?
btschaegg 8y ago
> Microsoft has embraced Github with it's recent .Net core development, they are one of the largest contributors with some incredible cross platform dev tooling. Not going to deny this, but that's really the reason I'm not comfortable with the idea of a MS owned Github. Microsoft doing open source development is great. Microsoft trying to influence open source and FOSS development as a whole, not so much. Them aquiring a central hub of such development efforts doesn't signal good things to come: The users of Github have nothing to gain from this, whereas MS has, and there's a non-zero chance of them ruining the thing for everyone in the process.

moeadham 8y ago

I wonder what Linus Tovalds is thinking right now. If I remember correctly, he wrote Git because Perforce was forcing him to use Microsoft software licences. https://github.com/git/git/commit/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290 https://github.com/git/git/commit/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23...

TimTheTinker 8y ago
Git != GitHub
DaveMebs 8y ago
Git was developed as an OSS clone of BitKeeper (which was originally provided freely to Linux kernel developers under the agreement that they not develop a clone). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitKeeper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitKeeper
- cesarb 8y ago
  > Git was developed as an OSS clone of BitKeeper Git was not developed as a clone of BitKeeper, it has a very different design (snapshot-based content-addressed filesystem, versus the SCCS "weave"). If anything, git was a (much faster) clone of Monotone, minus the heavy cryptography focus which made Monotone so slow.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I lived through the 90s, so I disagree. Anyone who feels perfectly comfortable with Microsoft's embracing of things they like is ignoring history. Maybe it's different this time, maybe it isn't.

ManFromUranus 8y ago
Sort of like the ship of Theseus, if all the people working at and running microsoft are different, is it even the same company?
- pathseeker 8y ago
  Culture can persist despite replacing all employees over time.
- nol13 8y ago
  Well since companies are people, more like skin cells. They all get replaced every whatever days but you're still you!
banachtarski 8y ago
Microsoft has been changing a lot. Embracing linux in their cloud offering, offering unix as a subsystem on Windows, open sourcing their work. Anyone who likens the current MSFT to anything resembling what it was in the 90s hasn't been paying attention to the current leadership.
- umjames 8y ago
  That's not to say they couldn't revert to their embrace, extend, and extinguish tactics of the 90s, even under future leadership. I feel that no big corporation should own GitHub, even if their investors feel differently.
  - danso 8y ago
    I'm not enthused about the idea of Github being bought. But on what grounds do you suspect that the Microsoft of the 90s is just lurking, like a conscious spirit, to reveal itself after a decade? CEO Nadella started working at Microsoft in 1992, but the executives who coined and lived the EEE phrase are all out. Is Nadella a sleeper agent? If not, what entity at Microsoft will subvert his leadership?

shmerl 8y ago

There is enough just criticism of Microsoft's bad practices that remain damaging to this day. So no, MS is clearly a bad steward for GitHub.

tomnipotent 8y ago
Yeah, let's evaluate corporations for decisions made decades ago by people no longer at the company. At least spend 15 minutes reading about the progress MS has made in recent years before throwing around shade.
- shmerl 8y ago
  They can reverse those decisions. Yet they don't, because they benefit from it. So it's not a justification.
- severino 8y ago
  Well, you know, this wasn't just an "insane" guy at the top who now left the company and everything's cool. Companies have culture, and while we can agree today Microsoft's not the same Microsoft from 10 years ago, we shouldn't forget their history so soon.
  - tomnipotent 8y ago
    > this wasn't just an "insane" guy at the top who now left the company and everything's cool Satya Nadella has completely re-organized MS inside-and-out since taking the helm in 2014. It is a VERY different company than it was even 5 years ago. In March [1], Microsoft even went so far as to officially disband the Windows department and merge it into something called "Experiences & Devices". [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176220/microsoft-windows-reorg-business-terry-myerson-ai-cloud https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176220/microsoft-window...
    - shmerl 8y ago
      It's different, but not very different. They still have a lot of lock-in like Outlook (ActiveSync), DirectX, exFAT and so on and so forth. They show no sign of dropping lock-in, except in markets where they are way weaker than competition.

mihaela 8y ago

C# is managed with GC, VS Code is Electron. MS has no native tools. QT rules that one.

emodendroket 8y ago
There's .NET Native, not to mention older techs like Win32.
- mihaela 8y ago
  Not the same as real native like C++.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Probably news to the Win32 devs of the world that their technology is "not the same as real native like C++." What distinction do you mean to make here?
Const-me 8y ago
UWP is native, you can code rich GUI in C++ without any GC involved. Currently it only works for MS platforms (Windows incl. ARM, xbox, embedded) but they might make it cross platform in some future. Technically the API is not that complex, i.e. unlike WPF it’s not that hard to port from the current Direct3D to Vulkan or GLES or Metal.

doublerebel 8y ago

Microsoft has been relying on Github to share all of its UWP samples for the last few years. This year, they added all their developer docs to Github so they can be directly addressed and updated by the community. They've done a good job of responding to PRs and issues. I write Hololens software and I could not have achieved such rapid development without their examples and developer outreach. However, Github is one of my favorite services, professionally and for hobbies, and I really don't want significant changes. I also use VSTS (Microsoft's code+PM online service) and it is a beast. They don't need to be heavily intermingled.

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

cup-of-tea 8y ago

That code you mentioned has opt-out spyware. It's not in the spirit of free software at all. It's just part of embrace, extend, extinguish.

the_trapper 8y ago
Microsoft has never been about free software. They are however embracing open source in a manner that feels very sincere to me. For the record, the so-called "spyware" is telemetry which exists only in the SDK for .NET Core and not the actual runtime that you would ship to the user with the software. It is anonymous data, completely open source so it really is only what they say it is, and the first time you use it it tells you how to disable it.
- cup-of-tea 8y ago
  > so-called "spyware" is telemetry Doublespeak.

sbr464 8y ago

Who is this guy?

btschaegg 8y ago

> Microsoft has embraced Github with it's recent .Net core development, they are one of the largest contributors with some incredible cross platform dev tooling. Not going to deny this, but that's really the reason I'm not comfortable with the idea of a MS owned Github. Microsoft doing open source development is great. Microsoft trying to influence open source and FOSS development as a whole, not so much. Them aquiring a central hub of such development efforts doesn't signal good things to come: The users of Github have nothing to gain from this, whereas MS has, and there's a non-zero chance of them ruining the thing for everyone in the process.