7 ms·

Dockless bikes: Are they bad for station-based bike-sharing systems?

27 points by prostoalex 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tbronchain 8y ago
Why would anyone use a station-based bike if a dockless is available?
- Lutin 8y ago
  The fairly consistent location of a station-based bike makes it attractive to me for both commuting and errand running. I have a GoBike station right near my house and right near my work, and it's very easy to fit into my routine, whereas pulling out a phone to (hopefully) find a dockless bike is much less convenient to me in those cases.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- idunno246 8y ago
  The article says that dockless isnt cannibalizing docked during commute hours. This matches my experiences, downtown theres plenty of docks and dockless bikes, but around my house theres very few dockless bikes/scooters, but a very close dock. Not having to think about where I'm going to go hunting for a bike is nice, and time planning a little easier especially for work. I imagine its also cheaper to run, which currently the annual ford bike pass in sf ends up being much cheaper than any of the alternatives - $12/month compared to a couple dollars per ride.
  - sametmax 8y ago
    In frankfurt you can put back dockless bikes only to specific small areas, unless exceptionally you wanna pay premium. The bikes have a GPS after all, so why allow customers to scatter them ?
    - lazyasciiart 8y ago
      Because a huge part of the benefit is that the customers can use them for the last mile of their trip, wherever that goes.
      - sametmax 8y ago
        You can with this system. You just pay extra so that someone can bring it back.
- peterburkimsher 8y ago
  In Kaohsiung, Taiwan, there's City Bikes (government-owned, docking) and OBikes (independent, dockless). The City Bikes use the same iPass metro card. They're free for 30 mins. They have larger wheels so ride faster. I don't need to use cellular data or the latest app of the day in order to use them. Both are popular, but neither have taken away from my favourite system - several cheap broken bikes I bought from scrapyards, which I park at metro stations and cannibalise for parts when I need them (e.g. I swapped out an inner tube last week; a tyre this week). Many bicycles are made in Taiwan, and broken bikes can be as cheap as 300 NTD (compared to 60 NTD to put it on the metro for one trip). Over 3.5 years I think I've bought 8 scrap bikes, though I gave one away and 2 were stolen. Right now 3 are rideable. I can park anywhere without needing to dock, I don't need to worry if they get stolen (they're so cheap), and it pays for itself in metro fares within a month. I get regular exercise, I'm not limited by the 30 minute docking charges, and they're easy to repair. Traffic jams are a non-issue. When I leave (hopefully to NZ soon if I can get a job) then they're easy to get rid of.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    >They have larger wheels so ride faster. Isn’t that more of a question of gear ratios?
F_r_k 8y ago
In Geneva, we have dockless bikes, but they are not everywhere. Why ? The bikes need to connect to an antenna (bike point). The range is only few meters, so you can only dock them in designated spots. Quite clever I think.
- GhostVII 8y ago
  Wouldn't those be essentially the same as docked bikes then? You have to bring it to one of the designated locations to drop it off, just like with docks.
  - F_r_k 8y ago
    Yes, but number of bikes is limited by space and not by dock places.
baybal2 8y ago
>Dockless bikes: Are they bad for station-based bike-sharing systems? (curbed.com) Yes. In Astana Ofo ran for just a year. After that, the company running station based rentals hired a battalion of tough guys to "deal with them"
- vorg 8y ago
  In China, people regularly put chewing gum over the barcodes of dockless bikes, presumably the easiest way to prevent them being used.
Fnoord 8y ago
For some context on how bicycle sharing system was started/invented, it is from '70s Amsterdam. That incarnation was dockless and publicly owned. See Wikipedia "wittefietsenplan" (white bicycle plan, use translator) [1] or e.g. this UK song about it [2] by the band Tomorrow. This English Wikipedia article also contains some history about bicycle sharing system [3] Recently it has finally been more broadly adopted (though also with a variant, the station-based bikes). One major advantage of station-based bikes is availability. You know beforehand where you can grab one (possibly using a mobile phone to see if they're available on the spot), and can plan accordingly. Dockless can compete with that availability via sheer volume though. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittefietsenplan https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittefietsenplan [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_White_Bicycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_White_Bicycle [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle-sharing_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle-sharing_system
- jillesvangurp 8y ago
  Dockless bikes can be found as well via an app. I use mobike in Berlin. They have a map in their app that you can use in the unlikely case there aren't multiple bikes in visual range. Berlin has a ridiculous amount of competing bike share companies. Multiple companies put many thousands of them on the street. Docking is not an option at that scale. The article seems to imply some inherent advantage of the docked variety that I just don't see. Also despite success and excellent safety numbers the article is calling for regulations. Why? From my point of view, dockless is clearly winning in Berlin. Getting people moving is a good thing. Ensuring every steet corner has plenty of bikes means grabbing one is a no brainer.
ggg9990 8y ago
Who cares? If dockless kills docked that’s fine. What matters if whether they are good or bad for people.

27 points by prostoalex 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

tbronchain 8y ago

Why would anyone use a station-based bike if a dockless is available?

Lutin 8y ago
The fairly consistent location of a station-based bike makes it attractive to me for both commuting and errand running. I have a GoBike station right near my house and right near my work, and it's very easy to fit into my routine, whereas pulling out a phone to (hopefully) find a dockless bike is much less convenient to me in those cases.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
idunno246 8y ago
The article says that dockless isnt cannibalizing docked during commute hours. This matches my experiences, downtown theres plenty of docks and dockless bikes, but around my house theres very few dockless bikes/scooters, but a very close dock. Not having to think about where I'm going to go hunting for a bike is nice, and time planning a little easier especially for work. I imagine its also cheaper to run, which currently the annual ford bike pass in sf ends up being much cheaper than any of the alternatives - $12/month compared to a couple dollars per ride.
- sametmax 8y ago
  In frankfurt you can put back dockless bikes only to specific small areas, unless exceptionally you wanna pay premium. The bikes have a GPS after all, so why allow customers to scatter them ?
  - lazyasciiart 8y ago
    Because a huge part of the benefit is that the customers can use them for the last mile of their trip, wherever that goes.
    - sametmax 8y ago
      You can with this system. You just pay extra so that someone can bring it back.
peterburkimsher 8y ago
In Kaohsiung, Taiwan, there's City Bikes (government-owned, docking) and OBikes (independent, dockless). The City Bikes use the same iPass metro card. They're free for 30 mins. They have larger wheels so ride faster. I don't need to use cellular data or the latest app of the day in order to use them. Both are popular, but neither have taken away from my favourite system - several cheap broken bikes I bought from scrapyards, which I park at metro stations and cannibalise for parts when I need them (e.g. I swapped out an inner tube last week; a tyre this week). Many bicycles are made in Taiwan, and broken bikes can be as cheap as 300 NTD (compared to 60 NTD to put it on the metro for one trip). Over 3.5 years I think I've bought 8 scrap bikes, though I gave one away and 2 were stolen. Right now 3 are rideable. I can park anywhere without needing to dock, I don't need to worry if they get stolen (they're so cheap), and it pays for itself in metro fares within a month. I get regular exercise, I'm not limited by the 30 minute docking charges, and they're easy to repair. Traffic jams are a non-issue. When I leave (hopefully to NZ soon if I can get a job) then they're easy to get rid of.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  >They have larger wheels so ride faster. Isn’t that more of a question of gear ratios?

F_r_k 8y ago

In Geneva, we have dockless bikes, but they are not everywhere. Why ? The bikes need to connect to an antenna (bike point). The range is only few meters, so you can only dock them in designated spots. Quite clever I think.

GhostVII 8y ago
Wouldn't those be essentially the same as docked bikes then? You have to bring it to one of the designated locations to drop it off, just like with docks.
- F_r_k 8y ago
  Yes, but number of bikes is limited by space and not by dock places.

baybal2 8y ago

>Dockless bikes: Are they bad for station-based bike-sharing systems? (curbed.com) Yes. In Astana Ofo ran for just a year. After that, the company running station based rentals hired a battalion of tough guys to "deal with them"

vorg 8y ago
In China, people regularly put chewing gum over the barcodes of dockless bikes, presumably the easiest way to prevent them being used.

Fnoord 8y ago

For some context on how bicycle sharing system was started/invented, it is from '70s Amsterdam. That incarnation was dockless and publicly owned. See Wikipedia "wittefietsenplan" (white bicycle plan, use translator) [1] or e.g. this UK song about it [2] by the band Tomorrow. This English Wikipedia article also contains some history about bicycle sharing system [3] Recently it has finally been more broadly adopted (though also with a variant, the station-based bikes). One major advantage of station-based bikes is availability. You know beforehand where you can grab one (possibly using a mobile phone to see if they're available on the spot), and can plan accordingly. Dockless can compete with that availability via sheer volume though. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittefietsenplan https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittefietsenplan [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_White_Bicycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_White_Bicycle [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle-sharing_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle-sharing_system

jillesvangurp 8y ago
Dockless bikes can be found as well via an app. I use mobike in Berlin. They have a map in their app that you can use in the unlikely case there aren't multiple bikes in visual range. Berlin has a ridiculous amount of competing bike share companies. Multiple companies put many thousands of them on the street. Docking is not an option at that scale. The article seems to imply some inherent advantage of the docked variety that I just don't see. Also despite success and excellent safety numbers the article is calling for regulations. Why? From my point of view, dockless is clearly winning in Berlin. Getting people moving is a good thing. Ensuring every steet corner has plenty of bikes means grabbing one is a no brainer.

ggg9990 8y ago

Who cares? If dockless kills docked that’s fine. What matters if whether they are good or bad for people.