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> Going out to party can also be fun but this becomes the difference in spending $20 at home vs $200 in one night. Agreed, but try not to be the person who ref

> Going out to party can also be fun but this becomes the difference in spending $20 at home vs $200 in one night. Agreed, but try not to be the person who refuses to ever go out because you're too focused on being frugal. A few times here and there won't really hurt you in the long run (and having fun with friends is important and worth the money), but making it a habit every night will. Just avoid the latter. > Frugal is buying an old reliable honda/toyota for $3,000 vs picking up a $40,000 entry level benz. Definitely agree. Americans in particular tend to buy way more car than they need, and the difference in price is on an order of magnitude that really does matter in the long run for many of us (i.e. if you invest that marginal $20k, $50k, or $100k and wait 10-30 years instead of buying a quickly depreciating fancy car).

0xfeba 8y ago
> Americans in particular tend to buy way more car than they need, and the difference in price is on an order of magnitude that really does matter in the long run for many of us Not only that, they trade it in (sometimes with negative equity) every ~5 years. I buy old, used Lexus'. Pretty much all modern features, quiet, and a fraction of the new price. Change the oil, and the timing belt if applicable, it will last forever. But people treat cars so much like appliances these days.
- dyim 8y ago
  How old, and how roughly how much do you spend? Thinking of replacing my '04 Civic sometime in the next 1-15 years :- )
- muzz 8y ago
  5 years is when maintenance and repairs start happening more regularly. Because these are labor intensive, if one lives in an area where labor is expensive, or if the opportunity cost of one's own labor/time is expensive, does this still make sense? Also, there are some really modern features like rear-view cameras, sonar, etc., which are pretty cheap in newer cars but almost impossible to find in older ones
  - 0xfeba 8y ago
    5 years? Not really. Pretty much any Japanese car made in the last 20 years, and domestic in the last 8 should last 10 years; 100/150k before anything major is needed. But, to run the numbers, get a the total cost of ownership (car payment, interest, and non-warranty or whatever maintenance) for a new/virtually new car, divide it over a span of the expected months of ownership (say, 60, 120, 180 months). Do the same for a $5,000-$10,000 quality used car that you can pay with cash. The hard part is estimating repair and maintenance costs, especially for non-car-persons. But I believe that car reliability is so good for recent cars that it's wasteful to purchase new. eg: $20,000 new car 36 month loan @ 2% = $28,072.59 Estimated average maintenance/year: $500 TCO 60/120/180: $30.5k/$33k/$35.5 $7,000 used car Estimated maintenance/year: $1,000 TCO 60/120/180: $12k/$17k/$22k Now an older car will generally cost more over time, eventually, than a new one. But every 10 years or so it's much cheaper to purchase a used one. And if your stereo is replaceable you can get a rear-view camera hooked up if you desire. They also have wonky standalone ones.
    - muzz 8y ago
      If it were true that nothing major was needed until 100k or 150k then car warranties would be of that length. There are reasons why cars depreciate, amongst which are the fact that they need more money put into them over time.
      - 0xfeba 8y ago
        They are? Most powertrain warranties are 100k nowadays. Recent cars have unlimited miles/10+ year corrosion warranties as well. Yes, you're taking more risk with a used car. But I have multiple cars, and am a mechanic so it doesn't bother me.
      - segmondy 8y ago
        The modern day combustion engine is super reliable if maintained. You just have to maintain it. I drove my last car to almost 300k miles and my current is at 240k miles. Of course there are major maintenance items but well worth it. When my car hit 200k I changed the timing belt, water pump, seals, etc. This is on a Lexus LS430. As expensive as it can get. Cost $1800. If I had a cheap car, it will be a $1000 job. Now you have to understand. Do I go get another car or spend $1800? Easy $1800. I'm at 40k more miles. What else have I changed? oil, brakes, tires. That's it. Nothing else! Does it have issues? Meh. Navigation sometimes acts up and freezes which I suspect is the DVD but I can't be bothered. I use my cellphone in those rare moments I need it. Everything else works. All power seats, windows, heated seats, traction, etc And here's the kicker, it's a 2001. 17yrs old. Most cars will hit 200k miles, some reliable ones like toyota, lexus, honda, will hit 300k easy with minimal maintenance. I rather spend $5k-$6k and add another 100k miles. :D
- meko 8y ago
  Idk I'm driving the same bell-free, whistle-less, sedan since 2006. @160kmi. But then again I'm not a bay area high-income developer.

0xfeba 8y ago

> Americans in particular tend to buy way more car than they need, and the difference in price is on an order of magnitude that really does matter in the long run for many of us Not only that, they trade it in (sometimes with negative equity) every ~5 years. I buy old, used Lexus'. Pretty much all modern features, quiet, and a fraction of the new price. Change the oil, and the timing belt if applicable, it will last forever. But people treat cars so much like appliances these days.

dyim 8y ago
How old, and how roughly how much do you spend? Thinking of replacing my '04 Civic sometime in the next 1-15 years :- )
muzz 8y ago
5 years is when maintenance and repairs start happening more regularly. Because these are labor intensive, if one lives in an area where labor is expensive, or if the opportunity cost of one's own labor/time is expensive, does this still make sense? Also, there are some really modern features like rear-view cameras, sonar, etc., which are pretty cheap in newer cars but almost impossible to find in older ones
- 0xfeba 8y ago
  5 years? Not really. Pretty much any Japanese car made in the last 20 years, and domestic in the last 8 should last 10 years; 100/150k before anything major is needed. But, to run the numbers, get a the total cost of ownership (car payment, interest, and non-warranty or whatever maintenance) for a new/virtually new car, divide it over a span of the expected months of ownership (say, 60, 120, 180 months). Do the same for a $5,000-$10,000 quality used car that you can pay with cash. The hard part is estimating repair and maintenance costs, especially for non-car-persons. But I believe that car reliability is so good for recent cars that it's wasteful to purchase new. eg: $20,000 new car 36 month loan @ 2% = $28,072.59 Estimated average maintenance/year: $500 TCO 60/120/180: $30.5k/$33k/$35.5 $7,000 used car Estimated maintenance/year: $1,000 TCO 60/120/180: $12k/$17k/$22k Now an older car will generally cost more over time, eventually, than a new one. But every 10 years or so it's much cheaper to purchase a used one. And if your stereo is replaceable you can get a rear-view camera hooked up if you desire. They also have wonky standalone ones.
  - muzz 8y ago
    If it were true that nothing major was needed until 100k or 150k then car warranties would be of that length. There are reasons why cars depreciate, amongst which are the fact that they need more money put into them over time.
    - 0xfeba 8y ago
      They are? Most powertrain warranties are 100k nowadays. Recent cars have unlimited miles/10+ year corrosion warranties as well. Yes, you're taking more risk with a used car. But I have multiple cars, and am a mechanic so it doesn't bother me.
    - segmondy 8y ago
      The modern day combustion engine is super reliable if maintained. You just have to maintain it. I drove my last car to almost 300k miles and my current is at 240k miles. Of course there are major maintenance items but well worth it. When my car hit 200k I changed the timing belt, water pump, seals, etc. This is on a Lexus LS430. As expensive as it can get. Cost $1800. If I had a cheap car, it will be a $1000 job. Now you have to understand. Do I go get another car or spend $1800? Easy $1800. I'm at 40k more miles. What else have I changed? oil, brakes, tires. That's it. Nothing else! Does it have issues? Meh. Navigation sometimes acts up and freezes which I suspect is the DVD but I can't be bothered. I use my cellphone in those rare moments I need it. Everything else works. All power seats, windows, heated seats, traction, etc And here's the kicker, it's a 2001. 17yrs old. Most cars will hit 200k miles, some reliable ones like toyota, lexus, honda, will hit 300k easy with minimal maintenance. I rather spend $5k-$6k and add another 100k miles. :D
meko 8y ago
Idk I'm driving the same bell-free, whistle-less, sedan since 2006. @160kmi. But then again I'm not a bay area high-income developer.