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From the article: "Flattr subscribers make a voluntary payment from 3 USD/month, install the company’s browser extension which collects their browsing history,

by ihuman 8y ago

From the article: "Flattr subscribers make a voluntary payment from 3 USD/month, install the company’s browser extension which collects their browsing history, and then Flattr divides their subscription fee out among the creators and websites they spent the most time on."

maxxxxx 8y ago
That could be done in a totally anonymous way. Add up total number of donations and total number of visits and distribute money accordingly. There is no need for them to ever store personal information for this.
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  (a) How do you get the total number of visits. (b) This doesn't correctly distribute funds because there is a correlation between how much someone is willing to give per month and what kind of sites they frequent.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    You can calculate the numbers as soon as the data about visits come in and then immediately discard all data. You certainly don't need to store the browsing history. You need the payment amount though and even that you can discard after a month. I am going through this at work right now where we are working data collection about a medical device. First we wanted to suck up all data and figure out what to do with it later. Now we have to think about the data use upfront and get that data in the least intrusive way. I requires more thinking but we get the same benefit with only a fraction of the data. GDPR is a good thing because it causes companies to rethink their data collection strategies.
    - nebulous1 8y ago
      You will need their relevant browsing history for the entire payment period
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        OK. Then throw it away after that.
        d2wa 8y ago
        That is what they just announced.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        True. To be honest I don't know how their stuff works in detail. My main point was that most of the officially stated needs for data collection can be met with much less data if you really think about it. Until now most incentives were for collecting as much as possible.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - daveFNbuck 8y ago
      There isn't enough data to calculate numbers as soon as the visits come in. If I pay $3/month and visit your site, the amount you get depends on how many other site visits I accumulate during the month. If I visit 2 sites, you get $1.50. If I visit 20 sites, you get $0.15. You also need to store browsing history to avoid scammers redirecting other users donations. This happens on similar platforms like Spotify. You register for Flattr and just run a script to constantly visit your site. With aggregated statistics, this shifts a bit of everyone's donations to you and can be extremely lucrative. With session history, you just get your own donation back, minus fees.
      - CydeWeys 8y ago
        Thank you. The scammer aspect is exactly what I was getting at. Without allocating any given user's donations fairly across the sites they have individually visited, I don't see how it works. It'd be susceptible to massive click-fraud.
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      > as soon as the data about visits come in How does this work, exactly? You are eliding all of the important details that require more information than just "My webserver reported a visit".

by ihuman 8y ago

maxxxxx 8y ago

That could be done in a totally anonymous way. Add up total number of donations and total number of visits and distribute money accordingly. There is no need for them to ever store personal information for this.

CydeWeys 8y ago
(a) How do you get the total number of visits. (b) This doesn't correctly distribute funds because there is a correlation between how much someone is willing to give per month and what kind of sites they frequent.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  You can calculate the numbers as soon as the data about visits come in and then immediately discard all data. You certainly don't need to store the browsing history. You need the payment amount though and even that you can discard after a month. I am going through this at work right now where we are working data collection about a medical device. First we wanted to suck up all data and figure out what to do with it later. Now we have to think about the data use upfront and get that data in the least intrusive way. I requires more thinking but we get the same benefit with only a fraction of the data. GDPR is a good thing because it causes companies to rethink their data collection strategies.
  - nebulous1 8y ago
    You will need their relevant browsing history for the entire payment period
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      OK. Then throw it away after that.
      - d2wa 8y ago
        That is what they just announced.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        True. To be honest I don't know how their stuff works in detail. My main point was that most of the officially stated needs for data collection can be met with much less data if you really think about it. Until now most incentives were for collecting as much as possible.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    There isn't enough data to calculate numbers as soon as the visits come in. If I pay $3/month and visit your site, the amount you get depends on how many other site visits I accumulate during the month. If I visit 2 sites, you get $1.50. If I visit 20 sites, you get $0.15. You also need to store browsing history to avoid scammers redirecting other users donations. This happens on similar platforms like Spotify. You register for Flattr and just run a script to constantly visit your site. With aggregated statistics, this shifts a bit of everyone's donations to you and can be extremely lucrative. With session history, you just get your own donation back, minus fees.
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      Thank you. The scammer aspect is exactly what I was getting at. Without allocating any given user's donations fairly across the sites they have individually visited, I don't see how it works. It'd be susceptible to massive click-fraud.
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    > as soon as the data about visits come in How does this work, exactly? You are eliding all of the important details that require more information than just "My webserver reported a visit".