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This is a good counterpoint and something my Dad points out often. He was very frugal, worked long hours and saved as much as he could so him and my mom could h

This is a good counterpoint and something my Dad points out often. He was very frugal, worked long hours and saved as much as he could so him and my mom could have a good retirement. She passed away at 42, so that never happened. He has so many regrets and wishes he invested more of his money & time in experiences with her while she was alive. I think there needs to be a balance. The trend of working crazy hours to save as much as you can, living overly frugal, etc. will not always lead to happiness or fulfillment. I like to think of it as how can I optimize my time and finances for "life" rather than retirement. That doesn't mean I don't have a nest egg, it just means that not everything is going into that nest egg.

segmondy 8y ago
There are tons of people who spent their money living it up and got old and are really struggling and having difficult times with tons of regrets. I suspect more than those who saved and died young.
- 20years 8y ago
  Yes, I agree. I am not proposing spending all of your money living it up, but to find a healthy balance. It doesn't have to go in the extreme in either direction.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    That's right. For example, an expensive new car isn't much better than a 3 year old used one, and the difference is a big chunk of money to invest. (And also being able to invest money rather than spend it on the interest on car payments.)
    - 20years 8y ago
      This is a perfect example. I have had the same car for 6 years which I bought used and am hoping to squeeze another 5 out of it. Cars are one of those things I hate spending money on.
      - marketgod 8y ago
        Don't forget to calculate the increasing maintenance cost, gas cost, and risk of using an older car.
        skookumchuck 8y ago
        If you buy an American car, the maintenance isn't so bad. The taxes are low on older cars, as well as insurance. The risk is real, there's been excellent progress in crashworthiness.
        marketgod 8y ago
        In America maybe? Here the maintenance on a car is insane, Canada.
        20years 8y ago
        This is a good point. So far I have had no maintenance other than oil changes/tune-ups. Once things start breaking down to where I have to spend $$ to keep it going, that is when I will buy a newer used car. I also mainly use it for local around town driving. If I go on a long trip, I rent a car.
    - nambit 8y ago
      This all depends on how much happiness you derive from an expensive new car. My every day commute is my happy time because of that new car that I enjoy driving. YMMV
- infinite8s 8y ago
  Probably because if you died young you by definition have no regrets.
gramstrong 8y ago
This makes me feel really sad. While my grandparents were still alive, I put off visiting them for literal years. They lived overseas and I combated for too long trying to justify the cost of travel for the length of time that I could afford to take off work and see them...unfortunately they both passed away very quickly. I've since realized that if I had a chance to spend just a few days with them again, I wouldn't even think twice about spending the money to do it. A hard lesson to learn.
Joeri 8y ago
The trend of working crazy hours to save as much as you can, living overly frugal, etc. will not always lead to happiness or fulfillment. This speaks to a common fallacy: the notion that happiness is a permanent achievement. Many people believe that you work hard so eventually you can achieve a position where you live "happily ever after". That's however not how the brain works. Happiness is a reward mechanism for effort bearing fruit. Once you stop doing things to become happy, eventually the happiness goes away because the brain adapts to its situation (this also works in reverse, you can get used to surprisingly horrible situations). The trick to being happy all the time is doing new things that make you happy all the time.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  This is just silly. The brain's reward mechanism is a dopamine hit. But that's not all there is to happiness.
  - Joeri 8y ago
    Maybe I'm explaining it wrong, here's someone who actually understands the science explaining why happiness is not and should not be the default state of the brain: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/05/21/yanss-128-the-neuroscience-of-joy-comfort-happiness-and-bliss/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/05/21/yanss-128-the-neuros...
- laythea 8y ago
  This is so true. A silly example. If you give a child a big bag of sweets all in one go he/she will be very happy for a little bit. But he cannot "consume" that happiness all in one go. The child's happiness level is saturated. So if you spread out the giving of sweets, the kid gets a constant trickle of smaller happy moments. Overall after all the sweets have gone, the kid who got given the sweets one by one, would extract more overall happiness from that bag than the one who had it all in one go.
- kudokatz 8y ago
  > The trick to being happy all the time is doing new things that make you happy all the time. Achieving "Financial Independence" -- when a portfolio meets all basic income needs -- can greatly enable this. The question is why people postpone their own "freedom" in favor of little wins now like trying expensive restaurants, etc.
mattm 8y ago
For the misers out there (like me) who don't like spending money, the way I avoid this is set X% to be automatically transferred to a savings account that is my fun money. It helps a lot because mentally I've written off the money immediately and I can enjoy spending it without worry.
- 20years 8y ago
  I like this!
- mateo411 8y ago
  This is also helpful if you are a spendthrift. Simply set %X to money that you are going to save. Put it someplace which will take at least a few days to access.
Jack000 8y ago
this happened to my family as well. The amount of money you can save by being frugal is very limited. IMO you're better off living a reasonable lifestyle and focus on income rather than expenditures.
- emit_time 8y ago
  Disagree, the amount that can be saved by being frugal is pretty great. Lots of people throw money at cars, eating out, expensive hobbies, new electronics/gadgets... etc. etc. The point is find eliminate spending on stuff that doesn't really make you happier, and focus on the things that do. Also, find cheap hobbies, reading, etc. etc.
  - Jack000 8y ago
    depends on your lifestyle and income I guess. If you have high income and high expenditures you have the choice between immediate pleasures or early retirement, and that choice isn't so clear cut imo. for software guys like mmm I'd wager that it's better to take the time and energy used on frugality and instead try to develop alternative income streams, which ironically is exactly what mmm did. regrets over $10-30 purchases seem like a complete waste of time to me... https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-mustache-the-frugal-guru https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-musta...

segmondy 8y ago

There are tons of people who spent their money living it up and got old and are really struggling and having difficult times with tons of regrets. I suspect more than those who saved and died young.

20years 8y ago
Yes, I agree. I am not proposing spending all of your money living it up, but to find a healthy balance. It doesn't have to go in the extreme in either direction.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  That's right. For example, an expensive new car isn't much better than a 3 year old used one, and the difference is a big chunk of money to invest. (And also being able to invest money rather than spend it on the interest on car payments.)
  - 20years 8y ago
    This is a perfect example. I have had the same car for 6 years which I bought used and am hoping to squeeze another 5 out of it. Cars are one of those things I hate spending money on.
    - marketgod 8y ago
      Don't forget to calculate the increasing maintenance cost, gas cost, and risk of using an older car.
      - skookumchuck 8y ago
        If you buy an American car, the maintenance isn't so bad. The taxes are low on older cars, as well as insurance. The risk is real, there's been excellent progress in crashworthiness.
        marketgod 8y ago
        In America maybe? Here the maintenance on a car is insane, Canada.
      - 20years 8y ago
        This is a good point. So far I have had no maintenance other than oil changes/tune-ups. Once things start breaking down to where I have to spend $$ to keep it going, that is when I will buy a newer used car. I also mainly use it for local around town driving. If I go on a long trip, I rent a car.
  - nambit 8y ago
    This all depends on how much happiness you derive from an expensive new car. My every day commute is my happy time because of that new car that I enjoy driving. YMMV
infinite8s 8y ago
Probably because if you died young you by definition have no regrets.

gramstrong 8y ago

This makes me feel really sad. While my grandparents were still alive, I put off visiting them for literal years. They lived overseas and I combated for too long trying to justify the cost of travel for the length of time that I could afford to take off work and see them...unfortunately they both passed away very quickly. I've since realized that if I had a chance to spend just a few days with them again, I wouldn't even think twice about spending the money to do it. A hard lesson to learn.

Joeri 8y ago

The trend of working crazy hours to save as much as you can, living overly frugal, etc. will not always lead to happiness or fulfillment. This speaks to a common fallacy: the notion that happiness is a permanent achievement. Many people believe that you work hard so eventually you can achieve a position where you live "happily ever after". That's however not how the brain works. Happiness is a reward mechanism for effort bearing fruit. Once you stop doing things to become happy, eventually the happiness goes away because the brain adapts to its situation (this also works in reverse, you can get used to surprisingly horrible situations). The trick to being happy all the time is doing new things that make you happy all the time.

vinceguidry 8y ago
This is just silly. The brain's reward mechanism is a dopamine hit. But that's not all there is to happiness.
- Joeri 8y ago
  Maybe I'm explaining it wrong, here's someone who actually understands the science explaining why happiness is not and should not be the default state of the brain: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/05/21/yanss-128-the-neuroscience-of-joy-comfort-happiness-and-bliss/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/05/21/yanss-128-the-neuros...
laythea 8y ago
This is so true. A silly example. If you give a child a big bag of sweets all in one go he/she will be very happy for a little bit. But he cannot "consume" that happiness all in one go. The child's happiness level is saturated. So if you spread out the giving of sweets, the kid gets a constant trickle of smaller happy moments. Overall after all the sweets have gone, the kid who got given the sweets one by one, would extract more overall happiness from that bag than the one who had it all in one go.
kudokatz 8y ago
> The trick to being happy all the time is doing new things that make you happy all the time. Achieving "Financial Independence" -- when a portfolio meets all basic income needs -- can greatly enable this. The question is why people postpone their own "freedom" in favor of little wins now like trying expensive restaurants, etc.

mattm 8y ago

For the misers out there (like me) who don't like spending money, the way I avoid this is set X% to be automatically transferred to a savings account that is my fun money. It helps a lot because mentally I've written off the money immediately and I can enjoy spending it without worry.

20years 8y ago
I like this!
mateo411 8y ago
This is also helpful if you are a spendthrift. Simply set %X to money that you are going to save. Put it someplace which will take at least a few days to access.

Jack000 8y ago

this happened to my family as well. The amount of money you can save by being frugal is very limited. IMO you're better off living a reasonable lifestyle and focus on income rather than expenditures.

emit_time 8y ago
Disagree, the amount that can be saved by being frugal is pretty great. Lots of people throw money at cars, eating out, expensive hobbies, new electronics/gadgets... etc. etc. The point is find eliminate spending on stuff that doesn't really make you happier, and focus on the things that do. Also, find cheap hobbies, reading, etc. etc.
- Jack000 8y ago
  depends on your lifestyle and income I guess. If you have high income and high expenditures you have the choice between immediate pleasures or early retirement, and that choice isn't so clear cut imo. for software guys like mmm I'd wager that it's better to take the time and energy used on frugality and instead try to develop alternative income streams, which ironically is exactly what mmm did. regrets over $10-30 purchases seem like a complete waste of time to me... https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-mustache-the-frugal-guru https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-musta...