5 ms·

This has a flipside though. If you do manage to find success (and say, own a profitable business or have an exit), you'll be taxed into oblivion. It might not

This has a flipside though. If you do manage to find success (and say, own a profitable business or have an exit), you'll be taxed into oblivion. It might not be the popular opinion on HN, but I would hate that. Make sure to structure things properly from the beginning so that you can leave when appropriate.

isolli 8y ago
Can you provide examples? I can only think of a counter-example: Ingvar Kamprad, the (Swedish) founder of Ikea, and by some accounts at times the richest man on earth.
- charlesdm 8y ago
  Literally every businessman who lives in Monaco. Most aren't very well known, however. If you make sure, for example, your intellectual rights (if we're talking a software company) aren't held in a country with a super high corporate tax rate, that would be a good start.
Jommi 8y ago
I guess it might slow you down from getting surpr super rich, but in the end it's surely worth it.
- charlesdm 8y ago
  No. It slows you down just getting rich as well. If I want to make €5 or €10m and retire, it's inefficient to pay a lot of tax if you can legally get around it. It's one thing to pay on gains you make after you've gotten rich, i.e. if you're making 5% a year on €10m, than on the initial capital you're building up.
  - Jommi 8y ago
    But if the tax goes into something like education, it also has an accelerating effect. I think this is an issue that just isn't that black and white as you want to portray it.
- sundvor 8y ago
  And you'll still be driving a Tesla.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> This has a flipside though. If you do manage to find success (and say, own a profitable business or have an exit), you'll be taxed into oblivion. Ok, but if I'm already living the life I want to live... who cares?
- charlesdm 8y ago
  Then it doesn't matter. But what if you're halfway there, and would be there if you could legally avoid the tax? Some people care about this, others don't.
mrlinx 8y ago
Sorry, but this has to be the dumbest comment in HN. The parent post was saying how living in a country with a generous welfare system can make a lot easier to have more free time and easier to take risks, and you're worried that if you take advantage of that, you might need to help pay that off if you're successful?
- charlesdm 8y ago
  The fact of the matter is that, in countries where the state gives you a lot, they generally take a lot as well. The money needs to come from somewhere. Most decent entrepreneurs manage to sustain themselves and find a way to build out something regardless of whether the state is handing out money. If I manage to get a win, I want to keep most of my winnings. I'm European but wouldn't want to live in a country with high income taxes, high capital gains taxes, various hidden levies (luxury cars costing hundreds of thousands, gas being super expensive), high corporate and dividend taxes, and to top it off a nice annual wealth tax. Why even bother trying to achieve more than your fellow citizen in that kind of setting?
  - ineptech 8y ago
    > The fact of the matter is that, in countries where the state gives you a lot, they generally take a lot as well. The money needs to come from somewhere. The state gives a lot to you, when you're poor, and it takes a lot from you, later on after you're not poor anymore. Why do you think you should get to live in a nice place full of nice things paid for by other people, and not pay your own share? How is that morally different from spending the night in a hotel and then skipping out on the bill?
    - charlesdm 8y ago
      Spending a night in a hotel and then skipping out on the bill will land you jail (or at least it will get the police involved). Avoiding tax is legal and does not. > Why do you think you should get to live in a nice place full of nice things paid for by other people, and not pay your own share? By definition, if you pay everything you owe, aren't you paying your share?

isolli 8y ago

Can you provide examples? I can only think of a counter-example: Ingvar Kamprad, the (Swedish) founder of Ikea, and by some accounts at times the richest man on earth.

charlesdm 8y ago
Literally every businessman who lives in Monaco. Most aren't very well known, however. If you make sure, for example, your intellectual rights (if we're talking a software company) aren't held in a country with a super high corporate tax rate, that would be a good start.

Jommi 8y ago

I guess it might slow you down from getting surpr super rich, but in the end it's surely worth it.

charlesdm 8y ago
No. It slows you down just getting rich as well. If I want to make €5 or €10m and retire, it's inefficient to pay a lot of tax if you can legally get around it. It's one thing to pay on gains you make after you've gotten rich, i.e. if you're making 5% a year on €10m, than on the initial capital you're building up.
- Jommi 8y ago
  But if the tax goes into something like education, it also has an accelerating effect. I think this is an issue that just isn't that black and white as you want to portray it.
sundvor 8y ago
And you'll still be driving a Tesla.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

> This has a flipside though. If you do manage to find success (and say, own a profitable business or have an exit), you'll be taxed into oblivion. Ok, but if I'm already living the life I want to live... who cares?

charlesdm 8y ago
Then it doesn't matter. But what if you're halfway there, and would be there if you could legally avoid the tax? Some people care about this, others don't.

mrlinx 8y ago

Sorry, but this has to be the dumbest comment in HN. The parent post was saying how living in a country with a generous welfare system can make a lot easier to have more free time and easier to take risks, and you're worried that if you take advantage of that, you might need to help pay that off if you're successful?

charlesdm 8y ago
The fact of the matter is that, in countries where the state gives you a lot, they generally take a lot as well. The money needs to come from somewhere. Most decent entrepreneurs manage to sustain themselves and find a way to build out something regardless of whether the state is handing out money. If I manage to get a win, I want to keep most of my winnings. I'm European but wouldn't want to live in a country with high income taxes, high capital gains taxes, various hidden levies (luxury cars costing hundreds of thousands, gas being super expensive), high corporate and dividend taxes, and to top it off a nice annual wealth tax. Why even bother trying to achieve more than your fellow citizen in that kind of setting?
- ineptech 8y ago
  > The fact of the matter is that, in countries where the state gives you a lot, they generally take a lot as well. The money needs to come from somewhere. The state gives a lot to you, when you're poor, and it takes a lot from you, later on after you're not poor anymore. Why do you think you should get to live in a nice place full of nice things paid for by other people, and not pay your own share? How is that morally different from spending the night in a hotel and then skipping out on the bill?
  - charlesdm 8y ago
    Spending a night in a hotel and then skipping out on the bill will land you jail (or at least it will get the police involved). Avoiding tax is legal and does not. > Why do you think you should get to live in a nice place full of nice things paid for by other people, and not pay your own share? By definition, if you pay everything you owe, aren't you paying your share?