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You call him a genius, yet he spent 6 years promoting a product (which I might add only took him a few days to create) that is only now just breaking the $1000

by rick888 16y ago

You call him a genius, yet he spent 6 years promoting a product (which I might add only took him a few days to create) that is only now just breaking the $1000 or $2000/month mark. Most smart people would have cut their losses a few years ago. Especially since that market isn't very big (elementary school teachers are poor and most schools won't invest in such a product). He is looked up to on the Joel on Software board and this forum as a marketing/business genius, yet he barely makes enough money to break the poverty level for one person (I can't imagine how he affords to live in Japan). He has talent and perseverance, but he's not a model we should be following for business.

skmurphy 16y ago
By what finish line are you judging him? He is well respected by his peers, he writes insightfully on difficult topics. he is independent and is spending his time as he chooses. And he is not done yet.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > And he is not done yet. That's exactly where it's at. We can not look inside another persons head and this kind of 'reading the tea leaves' is bound to get it fantastically wrong in the longer term.
- rick888 16y ago
  "By what finish line are you judging him? He is well respected by his peers, he writes insightfully on difficult topics. he is independent and is spending his time as he chooses. And he is not done yet." This is all good. However, I have seen many articles claiming he is some sort of business genius. The numbers he has given from his products prove otherwise.
ambiate 16y ago
I believe his products are capitalizing quite well for his target audience. Indeed, I would go as far as saying he owns a fair share of that market and controls it quite well. You just want to work on a larger scale, but don't be ignorant of the pieces coming together with a smaller puzzle... you're both still working on the same picture. Create a product, get it out there, make your target audience turn into a loving community, and make money. No matter how much you turn business into some complex monster: the fundamentals will always remain the same.
crystalis 16y ago
6 years of promotion might be overselling the occasional night and weekend of work. He's had a wonderful playground available to learn anything he wanted to learn about SEO. He was a salaryman until recently, and now he has an upcoming product that will likely make better use of his SEO and A/B testing expertise.
ssp 16y ago
You call him a genius, yet he spent 6 years promoting a product (which I might add only took him a few days to create) that is only now just breaking the $1000 or $2000/month mark. He did that while working a substantially-more-than-full-time salary man job.
- rick888 16y ago
  "He did that while working a substantially-more-than-full-time salary man job." I know. He put lots of effort into his products. However, success is based on results, not effort. A successful business to me means you can pay all of your bills, the business's bills, and have some savings with revenue. If he isn't quitting his job, it means: 1) His business isn't making enough for him to survive or or 2) It's making more than enough, but he still has enough time during the day to run his biz and hold down a full-time job. Just looking at the numbers, it's obvious it was #1. Still, he only just quit his job after how many years? A smart business person needs to know if there is a market for their product and if that market is profitable enough to sustain a business. It's obvious the bingo card market is very small and probably won't reliably sustain a business. Even the main users of the bingo card creator app are very cheap and probably won't be willing to pay for very much. So we have a small niche market with users that aren't willing to spend money a lot of money (or can't afford it). The question is: if he finds out that his new service (the appointment reminder) has a small, unprofitable market, will he waste another 6 years trying to make it a success?
  - rick888 16y ago
    why is this modded down? The patrick ass lickers of HN must be out today.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
ww520 16y ago
The 6 years of development of the product was done in his free time while he's working full time. The product has become a well-oiled money machine (however little) now that he doesn't need to pay a lot of attention. It's a nice additional income stream.
solutionyogi 16y ago
I am not sure why your comment got so many upvotes. Please do not discount BCC revenue as being only 2k/3k. He did not work on BCC full time. Not only did he work on it part time, he worked on his project while working 12+ hours at day job. Also, can you imagine a product like BCC brining in 3k a month? I think you are under estimating what he has pulled through. There is born-genius and being genius through hard work and determination. I think Patrick is of the later kind. It took him a good amount of time to be the genius he is (I have been reading his posts from JoS/BoS days). Now that he has quit his day job, I have no doubt that he will be successful in any endeavour he takes on. Also, the original article's estimate of 10k/month is VERY LOW. If he can make 3k selling to teachers (a very narrow niche), he will make a boat load of money selling to businesses. Let's say in first year, he has 100 customers (a very conservative estimate) on 79/month plan. That's 7900$ in revenue. Next year he adds 200 customers more, now you are talking about revenue of 24k. In 5 years, he can easily make 50k/month with minimum effort on his side. This business can give him the lifestyle we all dream about. Freedom to work your own hours, freedom to travel around the world, being your own boss etc. I am sure Patrick will keep us updated on how his new product is doing and once Sebastian sees the results, he will realize that he underestimated Patrick's genius. :) Good luck Patrick!
muhfuhkuh 16y ago
"yet he spent 6 years promoting a product (which I might add only took him a few days to create) that is only now just breaking the $1000 or $2000/month mark" Absolutely, and Amazon spent about the same amount of time bleeding hundreds of millions of debt _every quarter_. Notch (of minecraft fame) spent several years making little java applet games with barely any fanfare and barely eking out an earning if at all (he had a few day jobs prior to breaking free and founding Mojang Specifications). There's no time limit in creating or running your own business, and there is no marker of success except those defined by the founder's goals. Is it always a good idea to enter a market you don't care about just because it's big? Not really, or else everyone would be making operating systems and office suites.

by rick888 16y ago

skmurphy 16y ago

By what finish line are you judging him? He is well respected by his peers, he writes insightfully on difficult topics. he is independent and is spending his time as he chooses. And he is not done yet.

jacquesm 16y ago
> And he is not done yet. That's exactly where it's at. We can not look inside another persons head and this kind of 'reading the tea leaves' is bound to get it fantastically wrong in the longer term.
rick888 16y ago
"By what finish line are you judging him? He is well respected by his peers, he writes insightfully on difficult topics. he is independent and is spending his time as he chooses. And he is not done yet." This is all good. However, I have seen many articles claiming he is some sort of business genius. The numbers he has given from his products prove otherwise.

ambiate 16y ago

I believe his products are capitalizing quite well for his target audience. Indeed, I would go as far as saying he owns a fair share of that market and controls it quite well. You just want to work on a larger scale, but don't be ignorant of the pieces coming together with a smaller puzzle... you're both still working on the same picture. Create a product, get it out there, make your target audience turn into a loving community, and make money. No matter how much you turn business into some complex monster: the fundamentals will always remain the same.

crystalis 16y ago

6 years of promotion might be overselling the occasional night and weekend of work. He's had a wonderful playground available to learn anything he wanted to learn about SEO. He was a salaryman until recently, and now he has an upcoming product that will likely make better use of his SEO and A/B testing expertise.

ssp 16y ago

You call him a genius, yet he spent 6 years promoting a product (which I might add only took him a few days to create) that is only now just breaking the $1000 or $2000/month mark. He did that while working a substantially-more-than-full-time salary man job.

rick888 16y ago
"He did that while working a substantially-more-than-full-time salary man job." I know. He put lots of effort into his products. However, success is based on results, not effort. A successful business to me means you can pay all of your bills, the business's bills, and have some savings with revenue. If he isn't quitting his job, it means: 1) His business isn't making enough for him to survive or or 2) It's making more than enough, but he still has enough time during the day to run his biz and hold down a full-time job. Just looking at the numbers, it's obvious it was #1. Still, he only just quit his job after how many years? A smart business person needs to know if there is a market for their product and if that market is profitable enough to sustain a business. It's obvious the bingo card market is very small and probably won't reliably sustain a business. Even the main users of the bingo card creator app are very cheap and probably won't be willing to pay for very much. So we have a small niche market with users that aren't willing to spend money a lot of money (or can't afford it). The question is: if he finds out that his new service (the appointment reminder) has a small, unprofitable market, will he waste another 6 years trying to make it a success?
- rick888 16y ago
  why is this modded down? The patrick ass lickers of HN must be out today.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

ww520 16y ago

The 6 years of development of the product was done in his free time while he's working full time. The product has become a well-oiled money machine (however little) now that he doesn't need to pay a lot of attention. It's a nice additional income stream.

solutionyogi 16y ago

I am not sure why your comment got so many upvotes. Please do not discount BCC revenue as being only 2k/3k. He did not work on BCC full time. Not only did he work on it part time, he worked on his project while working 12+ hours at day job. Also, can you imagine a product like BCC brining in 3k a month? I think you are under estimating what he has pulled through. There is born-genius and being genius through hard work and determination. I think Patrick is of the later kind. It took him a good amount of time to be the genius he is (I have been reading his posts from JoS/BoS days). Now that he has quit his day job, I have no doubt that he will be successful in any endeavour he takes on. Also, the original article's estimate of 10k/month is VERY LOW. If he can make 3k selling to teachers (a very narrow niche), he will make a boat load of money selling to businesses. Let's say in first year, he has 100 customers (a very conservative estimate) on 79/month plan. That's 7900$ in revenue. Next year he adds 200 customers more, now you are talking about revenue of 24k. In 5 years, he can easily make 50k/month with minimum effort on his side. This business can give him the lifestyle we all dream about. Freedom to work your own hours, freedom to travel around the world, being your own boss etc. I am sure Patrick will keep us updated on how his new product is doing and once Sebastian sees the results, he will realize that he underestimated Patrick's genius. :) Good luck Patrick!

muhfuhkuh 16y ago

"yet he spent 6 years promoting a product (which I might add only took him a few days to create) that is only now just breaking the $1000 or $2000/month mark" Absolutely, and Amazon spent about the same amount of time bleeding hundreds of millions of debt _every quarter_. Notch (of minecraft fame) spent several years making little java applet games with barely any fanfare and barely eking out an earning if at all (he had a few day jobs prior to breaking free and founding Mojang Specifications). There's no time limit in creating or running your own business, and there is no marker of success except those defined by the founder's goals. Is it always a good idea to enter a market you don't care about just because it's big? Not really, or else everyone would be making operating systems and office suites.