5 ms·

Both of them have some insights worth pondering, but the attacks are kinda negatively overshadowing the discussion. Joel really shouldn't have started the Chica

by irahul 16y ago

Both of them have some insights worth pondering, but the attacks are kinda negatively overshadowing the discussion. Joel really shouldn't have started the Chicago hyperbole. Do they have some history or it's just impulsive?

nadam 16y ago
They are competitors.
- irahul 16y ago
  That alone shouldn't be reason enough and I would say both of them behaved very unreasonably if being competitors is all there is to it. I was asking more along the lines of previous altercations or confrontations. I do remember some post from 37 signals commenting about Joel's taking investment; not sure if it was David or someone else though. A very thin line divides frank and honest speech and rude and arrogant statements. Most of the internet celebs sit on the fence and cross it every now and then - Linus Torvalds (Open BSD devs are a bunch of masturbating monkeys), Zed Shaw(Rails is a ghetto) etc etc. That being said, there always is a take-away as these people are one of the most hardworking and talented people in the industry but the sad thing is it makes it difficult for people not familiar with their style to neglect the firework and just consume the good parts(not that it would matter to any of them).
subbu 16y ago
I think it all started with Joel's "Language Wars" article http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01.html for which DHH responded with "Fear, Uncertain, and Doubt by Joel Spolsky" http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000596.html http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000596.html. They have been at loggerheads since then.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- xentronium 16y ago
  If you're like me and can't access loudthinking link, here's a copy: http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=123&thread=174494#227118 http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=123&thread=1...
  - irahul 16y ago
    Thanks for the link. I couldn't really access the loudthinking link. On this one, I am with David. Joel pretty much negates his point about using something battle tested and mainstream in the end when he mentions using some proprietary language for his product, which translates to a couple of mainstream languages. I don't really see the point of cross-compiling to multiple languages. The work and time invested in maintaining the proprietary language can be better invested on other critical activities. If language interoperability is an issue, thrift or message queues is there to the rescue. Why he would use some fancy stuff when he himself is advocating using mainstream stuff is beyond me. I sure would be betting on ruby being more robust than whatever he is using in-house (preposterous claim; I have no ideas what they have in-house) IMO the only valid complain about Ruby was lack of good unicode support at the time post was written.
  - runT1ME 16y ago
    Did joel ever post a response?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
js2 16y ago
Joel really shouldn't have started the Chicago hyperbole He's a New Yorker, it's in his DNA.
cromulent 16y ago
http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2159-all-the-wrong-reasons-for-stack-overflows-vc-chase http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2159-all-the-wrong-reasons-fo...

by irahul 16y ago

nadam 16y ago

They are competitors.

irahul 16y ago
That alone shouldn't be reason enough and I would say both of them behaved very unreasonably if being competitors is all there is to it. I was asking more along the lines of previous altercations or confrontations. I do remember some post from 37 signals commenting about Joel's taking investment; not sure if it was David or someone else though. A very thin line divides frank and honest speech and rude and arrogant statements. Most of the internet celebs sit on the fence and cross it every now and then - Linus Torvalds (Open BSD devs are a bunch of masturbating monkeys), Zed Shaw(Rails is a ghetto) etc etc. That being said, there always is a take-away as these people are one of the most hardworking and talented people in the industry but the sad thing is it makes it difficult for people not familiar with their style to neglect the firework and just consume the good parts(not that it would matter to any of them).

subbu 16y ago

I think it all started with Joel's "Language Wars" article http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01.html for which DHH responded with "Fear, Uncertain, and Doubt by Joel Spolsky" http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000596.html http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000596.html. They have been at loggerheads since then.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
xentronium 16y ago
If you're like me and can't access loudthinking link, here's a copy: http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=123&thread=174494#227118 http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=123&thread=1...
- irahul 16y ago
  Thanks for the link. I couldn't really access the loudthinking link. On this one, I am with David. Joel pretty much negates his point about using something battle tested and mainstream in the end when he mentions using some proprietary language for his product, which translates to a couple of mainstream languages. I don't really see the point of cross-compiling to multiple languages. The work and time invested in maintaining the proprietary language can be better invested on other critical activities. If language interoperability is an issue, thrift or message queues is there to the rescue. Why he would use some fancy stuff when he himself is advocating using mainstream stuff is beyond me. I sure would be betting on ruby being more robust than whatever he is using in-house (preposterous claim; I have no ideas what they have in-house) IMO the only valid complain about Ruby was lack of good unicode support at the time post was written.
- runT1ME 16y ago
  Did joel ever post a response?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

js2 16y ago

Joel really shouldn't have started the Chicago hyperbole He's a New Yorker, it's in his DNA.

cromulent 16y ago

http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2159-all-the-wrong-reasons-for-stack-overflows-vc-chase http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2159-all-the-wrong-reasons-fo...