5 ms·

To me it would be ideal if plant based food was the default and animal products an expensive luxury. Not unaffordable, let's say a dish with meat costs about tw

To me it would be ideal if plant based food was the default and animal products an expensive luxury. Not unaffordable, let's say a dish with meat costs about twice as much as a vegan dish in most restaurants. But I would already be perfectly happy and content if all the wonderful places in the world I want to visit had vegan food at all. Of course I understand that people struggling with hunger and poverty have more important things to worry about. I don't know what it takes to "save the planet". Everyone going vegan might not be enough. But that ship has probably sailed anyway. The planet will have plenty of time to recover and/or become something new after humans disappeared (themselves). What bugs me is seeing animals suffer, regardless of species (including humans ofc).

pm90 8y ago
India is mostly vegetarian, grows enough food to feed all its people and still has millions dying of starvation. In most countries that face starving denizens, it is often (although not exclusively) the result of flawed distribution rather than an inability to grow food. I really think we're not focusing on the right problem, but that is my opinion.
- passiveincomelg 8y ago
  Is it really? So this article is wrong? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122 And when you say vegetarian, do you mean vegan? I don't know what real Indian food is, but the Indian food I have seen (and enjoyed tremendously) always had dairy/butter/ghee in it (maybe with the exception of dal(sp?)). Which is hilarious considering the whole holy cow thing.
  - pm90 8y ago
    I'm uncomfortable about taking BBC articles at face value. If you read it with a critical eye, you can see it giving weight to unspecified surveys a lot more than official Government surveys. There would have been a much easier way to measure meat consumption: measure the production of meat (internal + imports) and average daily consumption of households to see if the data is valid. Until the article provides any kind of proof that the data is flawed, I will continue to trust official figures. > Which is hilarious considering the whole holy cow thing. I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this. Milk rearing in India is not done in the industrialized fashion that you see in the US, but by small scale dairy farmers who sell their produce to cooperatives. In a country like India where nutrition is scarce, milk and milk based products are an excellent way to supplement diets. And as you mention they are already a substantial part of Indian cuisine.
    - passiveincomelg 8y ago
      Interesting. I think it would be even easier to see whether the article is lying or not. Just go to India, visit many different regions and have a look what the shops and restaurants frequented by locals sell. In my opinion, there is no point in avoiding meat without giving up dairy. With "the whole holy cow thing" I meant that, as far as I know, in one (?) religion that is common in India (Hinduism?), cows are considered sacred animals. Because of that, followers of that religion don't eat them. And in some branches of Buddhism, harming any living being is a no go. I could have gotten all this totally wrong. I didn't even take the time to read up on it right now. I'm not all that interested in religion, barely know anything about Catholicism even though that's the crazy I've been baptized in/on/with/whatever. I exited that club way too late, regrettably, but at least I'm not giving money to child molesters any more. Sorry, rambling. Back to cows: So eating them is bad, but somehow, perma-raping cows and making them sad by taking their babies away is totally cool. Maybe that not-as-bad-as-in-'murica milk production method avoids this bad karma. That would be great. Regardless of that though, I believe dairy is not healthy at all for adult humans. Cow milk is for cow babies. If you are reading this, you are not a cow baby.
      - pm90 8y ago
        > Interesting. I think it would be even easier to see whether the article is lying or not. Just go to India, visit many different regions and have a look what the shops and restaurants frequented by locals sell. That is called anecdotal evidence and cannot be taken as the basis to making informed conclusions about the whole country. India is a HUGE country and incredibly diverse. How many neighborhoods in India will you go to make a spot check? Statistics is your friend, not anecdotes. > Sorry, rambling. Back to cows: So eating them is bad, but somehow, perma-raping cows and making them sad by taking their babies away is totally cool. Maybe that not-as-bad-as-in-'murica milk production method avoids this bad karma. That would be great. Regardless of that though, I believe dairy is not healthy at all for adult humans. Cow milk is for cow babies. If you are reading this, you are not a cow baby. What the fuck? Whatever pain the cows may face is infinitely less than the absolutely disgusting conditions under which cattle are grown and slaughtered in the US (including cow babies as you so cutely refer to them). Milk is ABSOLUTELY a good source of nutrition for human beings. Especially in a country like India where a significant fraction of the population faces malnutrition, it is a very effective way to provide nutrition. It also has the side effect of financially enriching farmers who are one of the most vulnerable segments of Indian society.
- liftdd 8y ago
  Isn't a large reason for India being vegan due to Hinduism/religious beliefs about cattle/animals being re-incarnated humans?

pm90 8y ago

India is mostly vegetarian, grows enough food to feed all its people and still has millions dying of starvation. In most countries that face starving denizens, it is often (although not exclusively) the result of flawed distribution rather than an inability to grow food. I really think we're not focusing on the right problem, but that is my opinion.

passiveincomelg 8y ago
Is it really? So this article is wrong? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122 And when you say vegetarian, do you mean vegan? I don't know what real Indian food is, but the Indian food I have seen (and enjoyed tremendously) always had dairy/butter/ghee in it (maybe with the exception of dal(sp?)). Which is hilarious considering the whole holy cow thing.
- pm90 8y ago
  I'm uncomfortable about taking BBC articles at face value. If you read it with a critical eye, you can see it giving weight to unspecified surveys a lot more than official Government surveys. There would have been a much easier way to measure meat consumption: measure the production of meat (internal + imports) and average daily consumption of households to see if the data is valid. Until the article provides any kind of proof that the data is flawed, I will continue to trust official figures. > Which is hilarious considering the whole holy cow thing. I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this. Milk rearing in India is not done in the industrialized fashion that you see in the US, but by small scale dairy farmers who sell their produce to cooperatives. In a country like India where nutrition is scarce, milk and milk based products are an excellent way to supplement diets. And as you mention they are already a substantial part of Indian cuisine.
  - passiveincomelg 8y ago
    Interesting. I think it would be even easier to see whether the article is lying or not. Just go to India, visit many different regions and have a look what the shops and restaurants frequented by locals sell. In my opinion, there is no point in avoiding meat without giving up dairy. With "the whole holy cow thing" I meant that, as far as I know, in one (?) religion that is common in India (Hinduism?), cows are considered sacred animals. Because of that, followers of that religion don't eat them. And in some branches of Buddhism, harming any living being is a no go. I could have gotten all this totally wrong. I didn't even take the time to read up on it right now. I'm not all that interested in religion, barely know anything about Catholicism even though that's the crazy I've been baptized in/on/with/whatever. I exited that club way too late, regrettably, but at least I'm not giving money to child molesters any more. Sorry, rambling. Back to cows: So eating them is bad, but somehow, perma-raping cows and making them sad by taking their babies away is totally cool. Maybe that not-as-bad-as-in-'murica milk production method avoids this bad karma. That would be great. Regardless of that though, I believe dairy is not healthy at all for adult humans. Cow milk is for cow babies. If you are reading this, you are not a cow baby.
    - pm90 8y ago
      > Interesting. I think it would be even easier to see whether the article is lying or not. Just go to India, visit many different regions and have a look what the shops and restaurants frequented by locals sell. That is called anecdotal evidence and cannot be taken as the basis to making informed conclusions about the whole country. India is a HUGE country and incredibly diverse. How many neighborhoods in India will you go to make a spot check? Statistics is your friend, not anecdotes. > Sorry, rambling. Back to cows: So eating them is bad, but somehow, perma-raping cows and making them sad by taking their babies away is totally cool. Maybe that not-as-bad-as-in-'murica milk production method avoids this bad karma. That would be great. Regardless of that though, I believe dairy is not healthy at all for adult humans. Cow milk is for cow babies. If you are reading this, you are not a cow baby. What the fuck? Whatever pain the cows may face is infinitely less than the absolutely disgusting conditions under which cattle are grown and slaughtered in the US (including cow babies as you so cutely refer to them). Milk is ABSOLUTELY a good source of nutrition for human beings. Especially in a country like India where a significant fraction of the population faces malnutrition, it is a very effective way to provide nutrition. It also has the side effect of financially enriching farmers who are one of the most vulnerable segments of Indian society.
liftdd 8y ago
Isn't a large reason for India being vegan due to Hinduism/religious beliefs about cattle/animals being re-incarnated humans?