4 ms·

I opt out of the body scanner, and often experience extreme levels of hostility due to this. (Or related issues, such as keeping my items in my view during the

I opt out of the body scanner, and often experience extreme levels of hostility due to this. (Or related issues, such as keeping my items in my view during the screening process.) I have never sworn, threatened, etc a TSO, but I still fear I could be put on such a list one day for my "difficult" behavior. Personally, I think if they think behavior is egregious enough to need to be documented they should have the airport police cite the person for disorderly conduct. Police officers have a fairly wide latitude for issuing this charge, and we have an established court system to deal with appealing the matter. Much more democratic than a secret list.

BugsJustFindMe 8y ago
> I opt out of the body scanner, and often experience extreme levels of hostility due to this. (Or related issues, such as keeping my items in my view during the screening process.) How strange that I have the opposite experience. I do this too, dozens of flights per year in some years, opting for a pat-down and holding my items with me until they have someone ready, every time, and I've never once experienced rudeness or hostility from a TSA employee.
- rabidrat 8y ago
  Agreed, I've also opted for the pat-down every time, and have had only neutral-to-positive interactions and never hostility. Maybe it's worse in other cities?
  - leesalminen 8y ago
    Having your genitals rubbed with the back of a stranger’s hand is neutral-to-positive for you? That ranks negative-to-fuck-you on my scale.
  - greggarious 8y ago
    >Agreed, I've also opted for the pat-down every time, and have had only neutral-to-positive interactions and never hostility. Maybe it's worse in other cities? To be fair, I had good experiences flying out of IAD and DCA. I think they're either better trained, mindful that the person they're abusing may have some power, or a combination of the two. Other airports though, the TSOs seem to take it personally if you opt out, and then everything else (asking not to re-use gloves, insisting on keeping baggage in your sightline etc)is you being "difficult". No choice of words / tone can overcome the fact that these people find someone "challenging" them in any way shape or form as an affront. (I don't come at it like some sort of sovereign citizen and try to smile/be polite. This works ~60% of the time)
thatcat 8y ago
More transparent maybe. >use disorderly conduct The police would just automatically agree with the agent, if you're not in a filmed area then you could get to go to court, be essentially forced to plead guilty, pay fines, and write an apology letter to the person who may have groped you inappropriately. Then you're on a public list, where anyone can use this possibly incorrect information against you. The secret list actually sounds more democratic than (ab)using the court system to me since it's basically just a private account of someones opinion and everyones entitled to free speech.
- greggarious 8y ago
  >The secret list actually sounds more democratic than (ab)using the court system to me since it's basically just a private account of someones opinion and everyones entitled to free speech. I probably should have made this assumption explicit, but I would assume that police summoned to a checkpoint and told things like "he rudely opted out" would be told that no crime has occurred. This is the case currently, and the whole reason they're creating a list: to punish legal behavior.
JBlue42 8y ago
I used to opt out until feeling pretty violated from the enhanced pat-down a year or so ago. I've been patted down for weapons in many countries across the world and it wasn't necessary for those folks, or anyone in the previous 15-16 years, to wipe the back of their hand across my genitals in every way possible. Maybe we should think of getting rid of ineffective state-sanctioned sexual assault instead of more lists.
jeffwass 8y ago
I just flew from UK to USA and the UK security (Heathrow) made my 5-year-old daughter go through the body scanner!! Ie, the first metal detector arch beeped for her (I think it was a hair clip she had on) and they said she had no choice but to go through the body scanner. I was not comfortable with that at all, but they lied and told me I had no choice. Immediately afterwards I looked it up online and saw that you can opt-out with a pat down. I was pretty pissed they didn’t let me know this option, told me I had no choice. I think they were being lazy and didn’t want to deal with extra work. I submitted a formal complaint to Heathrow within an hour and they didn’t admit wrongdoing. They said there’s always an option to pay down. But refused to acknowledge their own security people didn’t present me with that option. Anyway, just my rant from what happened a few days ago, somewhat on topic to this. (It’s the UK version of the TFA).
- tsycho 8y ago
  I don't know if I would be comfortable with TSA agents patting down my 5 year old daughter either; so even if you legally had a choice, it wasn't a great one :(

BugsJustFindMe 8y ago

> I opt out of the body scanner, and often experience extreme levels of hostility due to this. (Or related issues, such as keeping my items in my view during the screening process.) How strange that I have the opposite experience. I do this too, dozens of flights per year in some years, opting for a pat-down and holding my items with me until they have someone ready, every time, and I've never once experienced rudeness or hostility from a TSA employee.

rabidrat 8y ago
Agreed, I've also opted for the pat-down every time, and have had only neutral-to-positive interactions and never hostility. Maybe it's worse in other cities?
- leesalminen 8y ago
  Having your genitals rubbed with the back of a stranger’s hand is neutral-to-positive for you? That ranks negative-to-fuck-you on my scale.
- greggarious 8y ago
  >Agreed, I've also opted for the pat-down every time, and have had only neutral-to-positive interactions and never hostility. Maybe it's worse in other cities? To be fair, I had good experiences flying out of IAD and DCA. I think they're either better trained, mindful that the person they're abusing may have some power, or a combination of the two. Other airports though, the TSOs seem to take it personally if you opt out, and then everything else (asking not to re-use gloves, insisting on keeping baggage in your sightline etc)is you being "difficult". No choice of words / tone can overcome the fact that these people find someone "challenging" them in any way shape or form as an affront. (I don't come at it like some sort of sovereign citizen and try to smile/be polite. This works ~60% of the time)

thatcat 8y ago

More transparent maybe. >use disorderly conduct The police would just automatically agree with the agent, if you're not in a filmed area then you could get to go to court, be essentially forced to plead guilty, pay fines, and write an apology letter to the person who may have groped you inappropriately. Then you're on a public list, where anyone can use this possibly incorrect information against you. The secret list actually sounds more democratic than (ab)using the court system to me since it's basically just a private account of someones opinion and everyones entitled to free speech.

greggarious 8y ago
>The secret list actually sounds more democratic than (ab)using the court system to me since it's basically just a private account of someones opinion and everyones entitled to free speech. I probably should have made this assumption explicit, but I would assume that police summoned to a checkpoint and told things like "he rudely opted out" would be told that no crime has occurred. This is the case currently, and the whole reason they're creating a list: to punish legal behavior.

JBlue42 8y ago

I used to opt out until feeling pretty violated from the enhanced pat-down a year or so ago. I've been patted down for weapons in many countries across the world and it wasn't necessary for those folks, or anyone in the previous 15-16 years, to wipe the back of their hand across my genitals in every way possible. Maybe we should think of getting rid of ineffective state-sanctioned sexual assault instead of more lists.

jeffwass 8y ago

I just flew from UK to USA and the UK security (Heathrow) made my 5-year-old daughter go through the body scanner!! Ie, the first metal detector arch beeped for her (I think it was a hair clip she had on) and they said she had no choice but to go through the body scanner. I was not comfortable with that at all, but they lied and told me I had no choice. Immediately afterwards I looked it up online and saw that you can opt-out with a pat down. I was pretty pissed they didn’t let me know this option, told me I had no choice. I think they were being lazy and didn’t want to deal with extra work. I submitted a formal complaint to Heathrow within an hour and they didn’t admit wrongdoing. They said there’s always an option to pay down. But refused to acknowledge their own security people didn’t present me with that option. Anyway, just my rant from what happened a few days ago, somewhat on topic to this. (It’s the UK version of the TFA).

tsycho 8y ago
I don't know if I would be comfortable with TSA agents patting down my 5 year old daughter either; so even if you legally had a choice, it wasn't a great one :(