3 ms·

Racists do not

Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
What is a racist? Is this a fixed idea or does it change year to year and depend on the context? Shouldn't we be careful about writing off people based on fluctuating social mores? What about fascists, Marxists, communists, and anarchists? And, say, Trump supporters? Do they deserve basic human respect? Is there any reason not to dehumanize these groups too? Or others who fail our moral tests?
btilly 8y ago
That is your opinion, and you are free to it. However at this point "racists" organized and wound up controlling Congress, the Senate, the Presidency and the Supreme Court. The people that you'd like to ignore are currently running the place. Ignoring them might not be the best idea...
- emodendroket 8y ago
  It's pretty unlikely that any dyed-in-the-wool Republican is going to hear your rational argument and be so astonished at your doctrine that he changes his mind.
  - btilly 8y ago
    Actually it is surprisingly likely..IF you're willing to do the hard work of moral reframing to put it from their views and values. See https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/opinion/sunday/the-key-to-political-persuasion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/opinion/sunday/the-key-to... for more about that. That said, few people of any political persuasion are able to engage in that exercise.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      I don't think this kind of exercise is that difficult, and I get plenty of practice on HN talking to people who have very right-wing ideas about the economy. But come on; it's not a way of working miracles. You might persuade your uncle who loves Donald Trump to moderate a couple of positions; you aren't going to turn him away from the Republican Party. This is the main reason that election campaigns have moved on and focus much more heavily on turning out their own supporters than persuading "undecided" voters, who are a statistical nullity.
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    Do think that Republicans are irrational? Are Democrats rational? What about Libertarians or Greens? Irrational or no?
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Is that what's at issue here? I think very few people -- nearly none -- are actually open to being rationally persuaded to completely flip their political beliefs. People with completely different political commitments usually start from different axioms.

Racists do not

What is a racist? Is this a fixed idea or does it change year to year and depend on the context? Shouldn't we be careful about writing off people based on fluctuating social mores? What about fascists, Marxists, communists, and anarchists? And, say, Trump supporters? Do they deserve basic human respect? Is there any reason not to dehumanize these groups too? Or others who fail our moral tests?

btilly 8y ago

That is your opinion, and you are free to it. However at this point "racists" organized and wound up controlling Congress, the Senate, the Presidency and the Supreme Court. The people that you'd like to ignore are currently running the place. Ignoring them might not be the best idea...

emodendroket 8y ago
It's pretty unlikely that any dyed-in-the-wool Republican is going to hear your rational argument and be so astonished at your doctrine that he changes his mind.
- btilly 8y ago
  Actually it is surprisingly likely..IF you're willing to do the hard work of moral reframing to put it from their views and values. See https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/opinion/sunday/the-key-to-political-persuasion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/opinion/sunday/the-key-to... for more about that. That said, few people of any political persuasion are able to engage in that exercise.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    I don't think this kind of exercise is that difficult, and I get plenty of practice on HN talking to people who have very right-wing ideas about the economy. But come on; it's not a way of working miracles. You might persuade your uncle who loves Donald Trump to moderate a couple of positions; you aren't going to turn him away from the Republican Party. This is the main reason that election campaigns have moved on and focus much more heavily on turning out their own supporters than persuading "undecided" voters, who are a statistical nullity.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  Do think that Republicans are irrational? Are Democrats rational? What about Libertarians or Greens? Irrational or no?
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Is that what's at issue here? I think very few people -- nearly none -- are actually open to being rationally persuaded to completely flip their political beliefs. People with completely different political commitments usually start from different axioms.