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The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a de

The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS. Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got? If you're on this site you are not most people. But, if it wasn't for the rules of Apple and Google what kind of things do you think Candy Crush would install on your elderly relative's phone?

jMyles 8y ago
> The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS. That seems like victim blaming to me. I think this is more like pretty good evidence that Microsoft has done a disservice to its users vis a vis their security. > Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got? Yeah. I fixed that problem by introducing them to Ubuntu and Firefox, not by cordoning off their ability to install applications of their choosing. > If you're on this site you are not most people. But, if it wasn't for the rules of Apple and Google what kind of things do you think Candy Crush would install on your elderly relative's phone? I dunno man, this seems like a very dangerous argument to me. It's like you're saying that there's a huge silent majority that is not qualified to be the sovereign over the machines in their life, and that's not my world view. I acknowledge that malware is a huge issue, but I think it's reasonably clear that the best ways of mitigating it do not include disempowering people or cutting their free speech at the knees.
- dwaite 8y ago
  > That seems like victim blaming to me. I think this is more like pretty good evidence that Microsoft has done a disservice to its users vis a vis their security. I squarely blame developers/designers. Not just Microsoft, but Netscape with SSL, Android with app permissions and side-loading, etc. There is this terrible historical concept that we can solve security issues with user education and work around design/deployment problems with security through obtuse user prompts. >> Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got? > Yeah. I fixed that problem by introducing them to Ubuntu and Firefox, not by cordoning off their ability to install applications of their choosing. Sure, just as long as you keep in mind that Firefox extensions and Ubuntu snaps/universe/multiverse aren't vetted for malware. Plus Firefox extensions (like those toolbars of days past) can inspect all traffic and capture things like credit cards and passwords. But hey, the user was notified that there was a risk and blindly hit OK - because it was the way to get the computer to do what they said they wanted the computer to do.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
asveikau 8y ago
> The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS. Is this an actual fact-based observation or just personal memories rooted in a time that Windows 98 was the best that many people got? It often seems like people who hold your position are arguing against a caricature. As in, you can't do it this way because people used to have problems, or people might...
insulanus 8y ago
Well, I agree with a slightly different assertion: that most people cannot securely manage software on a current desktop OS. One of the problems that I think we technical people have not been able to solve yet is giving the user appropriate signals of the relative danger of the action they are about to engage in. If all the dialog boxes look very similar, and any app can create one, you have yourself a dangerous system.

jMyles 8y ago

> The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS. That seems like victim blaming to me. I think this is more like pretty good evidence that Microsoft has done a disservice to its users vis a vis their security. > Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got? Yeah. I fixed that problem by introducing them to Ubuntu and Firefox, not by cordoning off their ability to install applications of their choosing. > If you're on this site you are not most people. But, if it wasn't for the rules of Apple and Google what kind of things do you think Candy Crush would install on your elderly relative's phone? I dunno man, this seems like a very dangerous argument to me. It's like you're saying that there's a huge silent majority that is not qualified to be the sovereign over the machines in their life, and that's not my world view. I acknowledge that malware is a huge issue, but I think it's reasonably clear that the best ways of mitigating it do not include disempowering people or cutting their free speech at the knees.

dwaite 8y ago
> That seems like victim blaming to me. I think this is more like pretty good evidence that Microsoft has done a disservice to its users vis a vis their security. I squarely blame developers/designers. Not just Microsoft, but Netscape with SSL, Android with app permissions and side-loading, etc. There is this terrible historical concept that we can solve security issues with user education and work around design/deployment problems with security through obtuse user prompts. >> Remember when you'd find four different toolbars on IE that your friend/family/neighbor had no idea how they got? > Yeah. I fixed that problem by introducing them to Ubuntu and Firefox, not by cordoning off their ability to install applications of their choosing. Sure, just as long as you keep in mind that Firefox extensions and Ubuntu snaps/universe/multiverse aren't vetted for malware. Plus Firefox extensions (like those toolbars of days past) can inspect all traffic and capture things like credit cards and passwords. But hey, the user was notified that there was a risk and blindly hit OK - because it was the way to get the computer to do what they said they wanted the computer to do.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

asveikau 8y ago

> The millions of desktops riddled with adware and viruses running to this day is pretty good evidence that most people cannot effectively manage software on a desktop OS. Is this an actual fact-based observation or just personal memories rooted in a time that Windows 98 was the best that many people got? It often seems like people who hold your position are arguing against a caricature. As in, you can't do it this way because people used to have problems, or people might...

insulanus 8y ago

Well, I agree with a slightly different assertion: that most people cannot securely manage software on a current desktop OS. One of the problems that I think we technical people have not been able to solve yet is giving the user appropriate signals of the relative danger of the action they are about to engage in. If all the dialog boxes look very similar, and any app can create one, you have yourself a dangerous system.