4 ms·

I have zero tolerance for racism. My family voted for Trump and they say racist things. I don't need that in my life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_

I have zero tolerance for racism. My family voted for Trump and they say racist things. I don't need that in my life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

fjsolwmv 8y ago
Thanks for that heartfelt message of high moral standards, 'assface
gjs278 8y ago
I'm sure we're all going to become nazis if we don't shut these racists down. maybe we can put them into camps?
- tomjakubowski 8y ago
  Shunning someone for being an asshole isn't equivalent to genocide.
cheald 8y ago
Using Popper as an excuse for not engaging with those you find intolerant is lazy. The paradox is that unlimited - not any - tolerance is self-defeating. Here's the man himself on the subject: > I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. -- The Open Society and Its Enemies Popper doesn't conclude that one must absolutely intolerate intolerance, but that one must reserve the right to not tolerate intolerance when the expression of that intolerance "answers arguments by the use of their fists or pistols." One might even argue that by refusing to "meet them on the level of rational argument, but beginning by denouncing all argument" you are in fact that intolerant person that Popper argues must be met with intolerance.
13years 8y ago
This is a great example of what I keep trying to get people to recognize. The trending method of improving diversity and inclusivity is through exclusivity. This will not work. People and groups who don't talk to each other grow further apart and trust each other less.
btilly 8y ago
It is a short step from being willing to dismiss opinions with a simple "that's racist" to being unable to discuss reality. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16908414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16908414 for an example of a conversation that is hard to have when you dismiss other people's views with "that's racist".
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Not every idea deserves serious consideration.
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    Ideas are expressed by people. Does every person deserve serious consideration?
    - Larrikin 8y ago
      Racists do not
      - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
        What is a racist? Is this a fixed idea or does it change year to year and depend on the context? Shouldn't we be careful about writing off people based on fluctuating social mores? What about fascists, Marxists, communists, and anarchists? And, say, Trump supporters? Do they deserve basic human respect? Is there any reason not to dehumanize these groups too? Or others who fail our moral tests?
      - btilly 8y ago
        That is your opinion, and you are free to it. However at this point "racists" organized and wound up controlling Congress, the Senate, the Presidency and the Supreme Court. The people that you'd like to ignore are currently running the place. Ignoring them might not be the best idea...
johnpowell 8y ago
I lived with my sisters kid who was 22 at the time. We decided to do Christmas at our apartment. So about 30 people crammed into our two bedroom place. Coreys dad came and and was wearing a MAGA hat and shirt. Then he said Trump will win and my beaner girlfriend will be deported. He is a cop in Vancouver Washington at this very moment. So I just grab a book and six pack and head to the roof of the the Jack in the Box a few blocks away. Easy to get up there and I can read and drink in peace. Fast forward a year. Now I live alone. Christmas at my apartment. Corey is in San Diego. The Trump supporter who has no real connection to any family that will be at my apartment asks for directions to the C-mas party. I tell him he is not invited. He is not happy. I do not care. Seriously. Life is short. I am not going to try to get along with openly racist people. They can die in a fire.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

Thanks for that heartfelt message of high moral standards, 'assface

gjs278 8y ago

I'm sure we're all going to become nazis if we don't shut these racists down. maybe we can put them into camps?

tomjakubowski 8y ago
Shunning someone for being an asshole isn't equivalent to genocide.

cheald 8y ago

Using Popper as an excuse for not engaging with those you find intolerant is lazy. The paradox is that unlimited - not any - tolerance is self-defeating. Here's the man himself on the subject: > I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. -- The Open Society and Its Enemies Popper doesn't conclude that one must absolutely intolerate intolerance, but that one must reserve the right to not tolerate intolerance when the expression of that intolerance "answers arguments by the use of their fists or pistols." One might even argue that by refusing to "meet them on the level of rational argument, but beginning by denouncing all argument" you are in fact that intolerant person that Popper argues must be met with intolerance.

13years 8y ago

This is a great example of what I keep trying to get people to recognize. The trending method of improving diversity and inclusivity is through exclusivity. This will not work. People and groups who don't talk to each other grow further apart and trust each other less.

btilly 8y ago

It is a short step from being willing to dismiss opinions with a simple "that's racist" to being unable to discuss reality. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16908414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16908414 for an example of a conversation that is hard to have when you dismiss other people's views with "that's racist".

emodendroket 8y ago
Not every idea deserves serious consideration.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  Ideas are expressed by people. Does every person deserve serious consideration?
  - Larrikin 8y ago
    Racists do not
    - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
      What is a racist? Is this a fixed idea or does it change year to year and depend on the context? Shouldn't we be careful about writing off people based on fluctuating social mores? What about fascists, Marxists, communists, and anarchists? And, say, Trump supporters? Do they deserve basic human respect? Is there any reason not to dehumanize these groups too? Or others who fail our moral tests?
    - btilly 8y ago
      That is your opinion, and you are free to it. However at this point "racists" organized and wound up controlling Congress, the Senate, the Presidency and the Supreme Court. The people that you'd like to ignore are currently running the place. Ignoring them might not be the best idea...

johnpowell 8y ago

I lived with my sisters kid who was 22 at the time. We decided to do Christmas at our apartment. So about 30 people crammed into our two bedroom place. Coreys dad came and and was wearing a MAGA hat and shirt. Then he said Trump will win and my beaner girlfriend will be deported. He is a cop in Vancouver Washington at this very moment. So I just grab a book and six pack and head to the roof of the the Jack in the Box a few blocks away. Easy to get up there and I can read and drink in peace. Fast forward a year. Now I live alone. Christmas at my apartment. Corey is in San Diego. The Trump supporter who has no real connection to any family that will be at my apartment asks for directions to the C-mas party. I tell him he is not invited. He is not happy. I do not care. Seriously. Life is short. I am not going to try to get along with openly racist people. They can die in a fire.