7 ms·

Well, maybe you should stop supporting our dictatorial regime for your own interests and give us the same freedom afforded to the 50s S.Korea before you point y

Well, maybe you should stop supporting our dictatorial regime for your own interests and give us the same freedom afforded to the 50s S.Korea before you point your uneducated fingers at me.

classicsnoot 8y ago
There is no national government that does not A) act in its own self/best interest and B) does so with the express approval of all of its citizens. The fact that you decide to blame the population of an entire nation (who are largely ignorant of global affairs as well as having no stake/vested interest in big money deals between nationstates) is indicative of your knowledge base on the subject. The game of wealth has been going on for much longer than Thirdworldism (1970s), Dependency Theory (1960s), Globalism (1940s), Socialism (~1850s), or even Capitalism (1700s).* Resource exchange and the wealth derived from it are hallmarks of pastoral societies, potentially even out dating currency exchange given the obvious value raw material plays in terms of power. What may be considered unique to the late stage Holocene is the domination of raw material exchange by Western Societies, but only in terms of its global scale. The Chinese (there are many empires that can be called this but i hope you can suss that out for yourself) knew the value of spices and precious metals even as Europeans were trying to figure out why the Saracens lived longer and better despite being "satan worshipers." Global mass transfer is what cemented the Western ascendancy on the globe. But the idea that this ascendancy was appropriated from others is a bridge too far (unless one is making an emotional or faith based argument) given the destruction the West wrought on itself, as well as the fact that every single Western Empire did substantially better economically once shorn of their colonial possessions. What is more, non colonial nations like Sweden and Switzerland are demonstrably wealthier than the original western colonialists Spain and Portugal. This, in my as well as far more notable historian's opinions, is due to culture and governance. This can be seen in the staggering achievements of the East Asian tiger economies vs. the abject shitholes of sub-Saharan Africa. The tigers were resource poor, xenophobic, and overpopulated. the -holes were resource rich, comparatively open, and underpopulated. Yet somehow, East Asia is opulently wealthy and powerful while sS Africa can barley keep the lights on. It would be foolish to claim that there were no outside influences in either case, but to blame the disparate outcomes on a single nation is not only unhelpful to solving the problem, it is deleterious. One can always make a "lead by example" argument, but that is just a transposed American Exceptionalism argument which is silly. I'd be interested in any reading you could point me to on this subject, assuming you've actually done any. My sources are all antiquated paper media, but i will give you a truncated reading list should you defy my expectations. More your speed might be the doc Empire of Dust as a point of departure. Nonetheless... "Western Guilt&Third World Poverty" Bauer,"Dont Decry Colonialism" Drake, "Decolonization" Fieldhouse, "The Middle East: Geostrategy and Oil" Khalidi and many, many more.
- ReturnUD 8y ago
  https://www.springer.com/gb/book/9783658114039 https://www.springer.com/gb/book/9783658114039
  - classicsnoot 8y ago
    I'm going to buy it and read it, but i hope you realize just how fucking stupid you seem. Go ahead Dang, ban me again.
    - ReturnUD 8y ago
      Well, I thought the same about you - a typical first-worlder thinking he is smart because his culture initiated him into "intellectualism". Few bubble influences there as well, with your willingness to defend a viewpoint with extreme bias without even any context of what the OP is talking about. It seems like you would go to any length to prove to yourself that you deserve to go to Harvard and spend your vacation money on NYC or wherever while the kids mine cobalt in Africa and middle-easterners get neglected by their "own" governments cuz selling oil to first-world is more lucrative than educating a nation.
    - classicsnoot 8y ago
      I cannot reply directly, but i am neither sorry nor embarrassed my "culture" instilled a "read, don't rage" sentiment in me. It makes me sad that yours does not, apparently.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - ReturnUD 8y ago
        F-ck off kid.
        sctb 8y ago
        We ban accounts that show up just to start and repeatedly stoke flamewars like this. Please read the guidelines and start commenting civilly and substantively—same goes for the other accounts that brought their own gasoline. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Well, maybe you should stop supporting our dictatorial regime for your own interests and give us the same freedom afforded to the 50s S.Korea before you point your uneducated fingers at me.

classicsnoot 8y ago

There is no national government that does not A) act in its own self/best interest and B) does so with the express approval of all of its citizens. The fact that you decide to blame the population of an entire nation (who are largely ignorant of global affairs as well as having no stake/vested interest in big money deals between nationstates) is indicative of your knowledge base on the subject. The game of wealth has been going on for much longer than Thirdworldism (1970s), Dependency Theory (1960s), Globalism (1940s), Socialism (~1850s), or even Capitalism (1700s).* Resource exchange and the wealth derived from it are hallmarks of pastoral societies, potentially even out dating currency exchange given the obvious value raw material plays in terms of power. What may be considered unique to the late stage Holocene is the domination of raw material exchange by Western Societies, but only in terms of its global scale. The Chinese (there are many empires that can be called this but i hope you can suss that out for yourself) knew the value of spices and precious metals even as Europeans were trying to figure out why the Saracens lived longer and better despite being "satan worshipers." Global mass transfer is what cemented the Western ascendancy on the globe. But the idea that this ascendancy was appropriated from others is a bridge too far (unless one is making an emotional or faith based argument) given the destruction the West wrought on itself, as well as the fact that every single Western Empire did substantially better economically once shorn of their colonial possessions. What is more, non colonial nations like Sweden and Switzerland are demonstrably wealthier than the original western colonialists Spain and Portugal. This, in my as well as far more notable historian's opinions, is due to culture and governance. This can be seen in the staggering achievements of the East Asian tiger economies vs. the abject shitholes of sub-Saharan Africa. The tigers were resource poor, xenophobic, and overpopulated. the -holes were resource rich, comparatively open, and underpopulated. Yet somehow, East Asia is opulently wealthy and powerful while sS Africa can barley keep the lights on. It would be foolish to claim that there were no outside influences in either case, but to blame the disparate outcomes on a single nation is not only unhelpful to solving the problem, it is deleterious. One can always make a "lead by example" argument, but that is just a transposed American Exceptionalism argument which is silly. I'd be interested in any reading you could point me to on this subject, assuming you've actually done any. My sources are all antiquated paper media, but i will give you a truncated reading list should you defy my expectations. More your speed might be the doc Empire of Dust as a point of departure. Nonetheless... "Western Guilt&Third World Poverty" Bauer,"Dont Decry Colonialism" Drake, "Decolonization" Fieldhouse, "The Middle East: Geostrategy and Oil" Khalidi and many, many more.

ReturnUD 8y ago
https://www.springer.com/gb/book/9783658114039 https://www.springer.com/gb/book/9783658114039
- classicsnoot 8y ago
  I'm going to buy it and read it, but i hope you realize just how fucking stupid you seem. Go ahead Dang, ban me again.
  - ReturnUD 8y ago
    Well, I thought the same about you - a typical first-worlder thinking he is smart because his culture initiated him into "intellectualism". Few bubble influences there as well, with your willingness to defend a viewpoint with extreme bias without even any context of what the OP is talking about. It seems like you would go to any length to prove to yourself that you deserve to go to Harvard and spend your vacation money on NYC or wherever while the kids mine cobalt in Africa and middle-easterners get neglected by their "own" governments cuz selling oil to first-world is more lucrative than educating a nation.
  - classicsnoot 8y ago
    I cannot reply directly, but i am neither sorry nor embarrassed my "culture" instilled a "read, don't rage" sentiment in me. It makes me sad that yours does not, apparently.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - ReturnUD 8y ago
      F-ck off kid.
      - sctb 8y ago
        We ban accounts that show up just to start and repeatedly stoke flamewars like this. Please read the guidelines and start commenting civilly and substantively—same goes for the other accounts that brought their own gasoline. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html