3 ms·
Do you have a family and other dependencies where taking a month off isn't really tenable after you leave your 20s, or whenever you settle down? It seems kind o
by taude 8y ago
Do you have a family and other dependencies where taking a month off isn't really tenable after you leave your 20s, or whenever you settle down? It seems kind of absurd to take a month off every few years just to practice for a new job, whether the skills you're practicing are relevant or not to said job performance.
- jaredklewis 8y agoTo me it doesn’t seem any more absurd than front loading 3 or more years of expensive professional school as do many other professions like lawyers, architects, and doctors. Just pretend you went to law school and have to make monthly loan repayments each month. Put that money in bank account and you will have more than enough savings to take off work for a month every few years. Median wage for programmers is nearly double the US median household income and has few barriers to entry. If the only downside is having to take a month off work every few years, I’m not complaining.
- sanderjd 8y agoThe model I envy isn't lawyers, it's PEs. Their professional degree isn't exorbitantly priced and the education is very useful for the career rather than busy work (by the accounts of those I know). Once the credential is earned, it is widely respected. Edit to add: In general, I don't think our system has to be worse than all others for it to be worthwhile to consider what might be better.
- jaredklewis 8y agoSure, but doesn’t it require 4 years of school + 4 years working under a licensed PE, then state exams? It is a very different set of trade offs than what we have in CS, where companies are more than willing to take a chance on bright people with non traditional backgrounds, including people that never went to college or dropped out. As a lifelong self-learner, I’ve certainly appreciated the lack of “credentialism” at tech companies. The one part of the PE thing that I would like to see borrowed is the exams. If all companies are just running everyone through the same kinds of general CS problems anyway, might as well save everyone time and improve consistency by making a standardized test.
- sanderjd 8y agoI don't mind the standardized exams part, but the part I really like is the apprenticeship. Elsewhere in this thread I suggested that maybe we could pick that part up without going all in on the schooling side.
- geebee 8y agoThe business model I envy is actuaries. The exams are rigorous, but leave it open how you wish to prepare for them. I considered this about 15 years ago when I was leaving grad school in engineering. To get through he first few exams, it's pretty clear that you need to understand vector calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations at the level you'd expect from the general undergraduate sequence for most STEM majors. I read that the most common undergrad major for the exams is math, but you're free to take the test if you've majored in something else, and I think you're welcome to self-study as much as you please. You just have to be able to pass the exams. It's a rigorous exam, but to me, this is so preferable to a 5 hour interview on differential equations, stats, and linear algebra every time you interview. And that's pretty much what we do in software, it's the equivalent of asking a senior actuary to do an integration by parts or a complex derivative at the whiteboard during an interview. What I also like about this approach is that we'd avoid that situation where a cartel like the law schools can put a 150k, 3 year degree in between talented people and the profession they'd like to enter. Another thing is that tech exams are very capricious - you can end up with a totally unqualified interviewer, there's really no quality control on the questions or how the exams are administered. A more formal exam could have a lot of benefits, though I do agree that a required long degree program that is $$ would do more harm than good. EDIT: There's is something that causes me to question some of what I wrote above - I have grown wary of many of the people who want to regulate software as a profession. I'm still stinging a from my collisions with the test-driven development crowd dating back over the last decade. They really were saying that to merely question the value of the methodology should render you un-hireable. Imagine if they got control over formal licensing. I do shudder at the thought. When I think of that possibility, the Wild West approach, unsavory as it may be, seems more appealing.
- sanderjd 8y agoI love this comment, both pre- and post-edit. It's definitely a tough problem, wariness is warranted, and there are worse models out there, but the problems are also real and worth discussing.
- commandlinefan 8y ago> taking a month off A month off? I completed an MSCS (including a thesis) while working full time with two young children at home (my daughter was born in between my first and second year). I can't imagine educational/licensing requirements that would be more difficult than that; you can continue your education without dropping out entirely.
- sizzle 8y agoAny tips on how you organized your time to pull this achievement off? Congrats!
- commandlinefan 8y agoA very supportive family - I don't think I could have done it if she had been complaining about it the whole time.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoIt's not a month of 60hrs a week of studying. It's a month of doing practice problems after dinner and on weekends instead of watching netflix.