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What lead are you talking about? Canon's sensors were a running joke in the past 5 years comparing to Nikon (that used modified Sony sensors), manufactured in 3

by bitL 8y ago

What lead are you talking about? Canon's sensors were a running joke in the past 5 years comparing to Nikon (that used modified Sony sensors), manufactured in 3 generation-older process than their competition. Seeing e.g. D750 vs 5D MkIII in low-light was an eye opener. The only selling point of Canon remained their unique "pleasant" color mapping (and photographers getting stuck with older Canon-only lenses/strobes etc.).

msbarnett 8y ago
Canon had an early lead in sensor noise (they bet big on CMOS early on when most of the market was treating CCD as the future), from the early 2000s up until Sony moved to on-chip ADC around 2009-2010 and Nikon adopted their sensors wholesale. It's worth noting that Canon has moved to on-chip ADC and that there's now only around a stop difference in noise between their sensors and Sony's, but from 2010-2016ish, Sony was certainly far ahead of the game.
- giobox 8y ago
  Exactly this. Canon had significant performance advantages in the mid 2000s thanks to their bet on CMOS technology when almost everyone else believed CCD had superior image quality. This really showed in the clean high ISO performance one got in their DSLRs vs the competition at that time, and it took a long while for competition to really catch up. This reminds me when the first “affordable” DSLRs from canon and Nikon arrived - both 6 megapixel models (the Canon 300D/Digital Rebel and the Nikon D70). The D70 was the better camera in a great many ways, but many buyers still chose the 300D to get access to the incredibly good for the time low noise CMOS sensor. I can’t count the number of discussions I had with friends looking to get a first DSLR debating the relative merits of those two landmark cameras. A later firmware hack for the 300D that gave it almost all the features of the more expensive 10D made this debate very interesting as well. The past 5 years are less impressive though, for sure, with the great sensor hardware from Sony etc.
gnarcoregrizz 8y ago
Canon's sensors are decent, not a running joke as you say. But yeah they are known more for their colors (which is actually very important). Sony has destroyed the competition with their sensors though, and has really pushed the boundaries, at least until recently with that 50 mpix sensor that Canon released. Haven't researched that much though, I'm a few years behind myself. That said, Canon has historically been the winner with their lens selection, and IMO UX. Sony is quickly catching up, or even surpassing them though with e-mount, especially now that more 3rd party lens manufacturers are killing it (Sigma). I also like EVFs more than OVFs since you get a better exposure preview and focus peeking for manual focus. I really, really, really wanted to buy a Sony a7, but I ended up buying a Canon 6d due to lens selection a few years ago (and the Canon beat them on price). I'm a huge fan of mirrorless tech and I'm actually surprised that SLRs are still around. The camera body is being commoditized. I'm a canon fan and hope they catch up with a full frame mirrorless, my buddy who follows the tech more said he's heard rumors that they are releasing one next year?
- bitL 8y ago
  I also think mirrorless is the future; I am now selling my Nikon/Sigma DSLRs and going fully mirrorless (Sony), as focus issues seem to be finally resolved and photos are now beyond good enough level, already in great/pro level.
  - remyM 8y ago
    Yeah, I went mirrorless. Loving it so far. Definitely the future here, I love the ability to modify my settings and it shows on the LCD, instead of having to chimp like I did with my old 1200D. Picked up a NEX 5N, 18-55, 55-210, and 16mm for $200AU (~$160US). Next stop: A6000.
- msbarnett 8y ago
  The current rumor is that Canon (and possibly Nikon as well) will reveal their first mirrorless Full Frame camera body at or just prior to Photokina, which happens in late September.
- ISL 8y ago
CarVac 8y ago
Until 2007 Canon was far ahead of the curve, and they held on to parity until around 2010-2011. Shoot any camera from 2005 other than a Canon and the images will definitely have compromised image quality except in the best conditions, yet a 5D from 13 years ago still produces superb image quality. Only starting in 2010-2011 did they stagnate in image quality for a time.
- bitL 8y ago
  I think the break point was around the release of D7000 (APS-C) which suddenly matched (and surpassed in dynamic range) the immensely popular 5D Mk II (FF), the default choice of videographers and fashion/wedding photographers. Around that time 5D Mk II (and to some extent 1D) dominated.
snowwrestler 8y ago
> What lead are you talking about? Market share. The estimates I've seen are that between Canon, Nikon, and Sony DSLRs, Canon currently has the largest single share of the market. Prior to Canon's work with CMOS sensors in the early 2000s, Nikon had the SLR and DSLR market share lead over Canon. (And basically no Sony bodies at all back then.)

by bitL 8y ago

msbarnett 8y ago

Canon had an early lead in sensor noise (they bet big on CMOS early on when most of the market was treating CCD as the future), from the early 2000s up until Sony moved to on-chip ADC around 2009-2010 and Nikon adopted their sensors wholesale. It's worth noting that Canon has moved to on-chip ADC and that there's now only around a stop difference in noise between their sensors and Sony's, but from 2010-2016ish, Sony was certainly far ahead of the game.

giobox 8y ago
Exactly this. Canon had significant performance advantages in the mid 2000s thanks to their bet on CMOS technology when almost everyone else believed CCD had superior image quality. This really showed in the clean high ISO performance one got in their DSLRs vs the competition at that time, and it took a long while for competition to really catch up. This reminds me when the first “affordable” DSLRs from canon and Nikon arrived - both 6 megapixel models (the Canon 300D/Digital Rebel and the Nikon D70). The D70 was the better camera in a great many ways, but many buyers still chose the 300D to get access to the incredibly good for the time low noise CMOS sensor. I can’t count the number of discussions I had with friends looking to get a first DSLR debating the relative merits of those two landmark cameras. A later firmware hack for the 300D that gave it almost all the features of the more expensive 10D made this debate very interesting as well. The past 5 years are less impressive though, for sure, with the great sensor hardware from Sony etc.

gnarcoregrizz 8y ago

Canon's sensors are decent, not a running joke as you say. But yeah they are known more for their colors (which is actually very important). Sony has destroyed the competition with their sensors though, and has really pushed the boundaries, at least until recently with that 50 mpix sensor that Canon released. Haven't researched that much though, I'm a few years behind myself. That said, Canon has historically been the winner with their lens selection, and IMO UX. Sony is quickly catching up, or even surpassing them though with e-mount, especially now that more 3rd party lens manufacturers are killing it (Sigma). I also like EVFs more than OVFs since you get a better exposure preview and focus peeking for manual focus. I really, really, really wanted to buy a Sony a7, but I ended up buying a Canon 6d due to lens selection a few years ago (and the Canon beat them on price). I'm a huge fan of mirrorless tech and I'm actually surprised that SLRs are still around. The camera body is being commoditized. I'm a canon fan and hope they catch up with a full frame mirrorless, my buddy who follows the tech more said he's heard rumors that they are releasing one next year?

bitL 8y ago
I also think mirrorless is the future; I am now selling my Nikon/Sigma DSLRs and going fully mirrorless (Sony), as focus issues seem to be finally resolved and photos are now beyond good enough level, already in great/pro level.
- remyM 8y ago
  Yeah, I went mirrorless. Loving it so far. Definitely the future here, I love the ability to modify my settings and it shows on the LCD, instead of having to chimp like I did with my old 1200D. Picked up a NEX 5N, 18-55, 55-210, and 16mm for $200AU (~$160US). Next stop: A6000.
msbarnett 8y ago
The current rumor is that Canon (and possibly Nikon as well) will reveal their first mirrorless Full Frame camera body at or just prior to Photokina, which happens in late September.
ISL 8y ago

CarVac 8y ago

Until 2007 Canon was far ahead of the curve, and they held on to parity until around 2010-2011. Shoot any camera from 2005 other than a Canon and the images will definitely have compromised image quality except in the best conditions, yet a 5D from 13 years ago still produces superb image quality. Only starting in 2010-2011 did they stagnate in image quality for a time.

bitL 8y ago
I think the break point was around the release of D7000 (APS-C) which suddenly matched (and surpassed in dynamic range) the immensely popular 5D Mk II (FF), the default choice of videographers and fashion/wedding photographers. Around that time 5D Mk II (and to some extent 1D) dominated.

snowwrestler 8y ago

> What lead are you talking about? Market share. The estimates I've seen are that between Canon, Nikon, and Sony DSLRs, Canon currently has the largest single share of the market. Prior to Canon's work with CMOS sensors in the early 2000s, Nikon had the SLR and DSLR market share lead over Canon. (And basically no Sony bodies at all back then.)