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I'd argue there is for Medium/Large format, but that's a whole different ballgame compared to consumer SLRs. Last time I looked the digital back for a Hasselbl

I'd argue there is for Medium/Large format, but that's a whole different ballgame compared to consumer SLRs. Last time I looked the digital back for a Hasselblad was ~$30k.

wl 8y ago
Maybe the market for medium format film is better, but my experience with large format is that people practically give the gear away.
- lb1lf 8y ago
  That depends. Sure, you can dip your toes in the large format pool quite cheaply (everything, as they say, is relative!) - but the fancier optics and cameras get pretty expensive pretty fast. (Not to mention the cost of 4x5 or (shudder!) 8x10 processing; B&W is eminently doable in the home, but IMHO where LF really, really shines is with dias film - developing that at home is not for the faint of heart.)
jonknee 8y ago
And in the scheme of things there is almost no market for medium / large format cameras (digital or otherwise).
- ekianjo 8y ago
  Of course there is a market. Look at used cameras, they sell at very high prices. There is no "mass market", but there is definitely one with quite a few people willing to pay premium for high end film cameras.
  - jonknee 8y ago
    That's why I said "in the scheme of things". It's a tiny business. I love cameras and will probably have a medium format digital camera at some point, but it's a tiny business that can't move the needle in a $34b company like Canon. Put another way, if over night Canon had won 100% market share of all film cameras it would not be noticeable in the next quarterly earnings report.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      It's like saying Ferrari doesn't matter market-wise because they sell only a few thousands cars a year. The same goes for large format film photography.
      - macintux 8y ago
        Ferrari doesn't matter market-wise.
        soundwave106 8y ago
        But Ferrari matters greatly in the luxury sports car segment. There's no sin in tailoring a business to a small niche. Heck, I'd say "in the grand scheme of things", if you look at some of the data available (https://petapixel.com/2017/03/03/latest-camera-sales-chart-reveals-death-compact-camera/ https://petapixel.com/2017/03/03/latest-camera-sales-chart-r...), stand-alone digital cameras "don't matter market-wise" compared to what has replaced them for a lot of people -- smartphones. Not that all stand alone digital cameras will disappear anytime soon (especially in segments like the DSLR market where the lenses can offer advantages for certain pictures), but the general purpose "compact digital camera" is probably doomed.
        bronson 8y ago
        If that's true then why does everybody know who they are?
        gambiting 8y ago
        Why would there be a correlation here? Ferrari could disappear tomorrow, and it would have zero effect on the automotive market.
        bronson 8y ago
        On sales? Sure. But the market as a whole? Ferrari is an outsize innovator, both in technology and design. If they disappeared, you'd notice.
  - Finnucane 8y ago
    A couple of years ago I bought a Hasselblad 503cx w/80mm lens, paid about $1000 for it. Also, a 50mm CF that cost me around another $400. So relatively expensive for a 25-year-old camera, but in inflation-adjusted terms about 10 percent of it's original price. Some desirable cameras still have some value, but a lot are going for pennies on the dollar. I paid more for the 'blad than either of my 4x5's.
- vvanders 8y ago
  I think people who work in business side of large scale print would disagree. Granted it's no where near the scale of consumer SLRs but there's a reason MF/LF cameras exist.
- sureaboutthis 8y ago
  Don't tell the medium and large format professionals in agencies and art works around the world. They'll be shocked to hear that.
  - jonknee 8y ago
    I actually don't think they'd be shocked, it's not like there's a ton of activity in the segment. They're crucial tools needed by small numbers of people.
    - sureaboutthis 8y ago
      Sorry but you don't know the market and there is far more going on than you appear to be aware of.
ekianjo 8y ago
I think you can get digital backs starting about 8k for medium format TLR. But yeah, as you point out, higher end digital backs sell for a fortune.
exelius 8y ago
That’s a small market, and most photogs I know who shoot MF/LF film are using cameras that are 50+ years old (Hasselblads mostly). A digital back can improve workflow, but quality is still better with film at those sizes. These are studio cameras through and through; and I was able to connect a Hasselblad to some el cheapo Chinese lighting setup I bought on Amazon a year ago. That’s backwards compatibility.
- evasote 8y ago
  Yep - I have a friend who takes pictures of (very expensive, high profile) weddings all around the world with a MF film Hasselblad. They still can't be beat
  - splintercell 8y ago
    Hasselblad is like Montblanc of fountain pens, or Glock for handguns, at the end of the day, there is a leader in any field and they get exponentially high attention (because everyone can name that one leading brand name in any field), so they just charge that much more. At the end of the day Hasselblad is only 6x6 (i.e the negative size), but there are many bigger format (in medium format) cameras available like Mamiya 6, Mamiya 7, GW690III (which is 6x9, twice the negative size of Hasselblad H1's 6x4.5).
    - anta40 8y ago
      Hasselblad is nice, and fortunately not that expensive these days (probably Leica gears are still costlier :p ) If you are looking for the ultimate medium format system camera, the obvious answer is Fuji GX680. It's waay bigger than the Hassy, and you can also put digital backs on it. The only downside is it's electronic camera, not mechanical.
      - splintercell 8y ago
        I have a GW690II, have you used that one? Do you know how does it compare with GX680?

I'd argue there is for Medium/Large format, but that's a whole different ballgame compared to consumer SLRs. Last time I looked the digital back for a Hasselblad was ~$30k.

wl 8y ago

Maybe the market for medium format film is better, but my experience with large format is that people practically give the gear away.

lb1lf 8y ago
That depends. Sure, you can dip your toes in the large format pool quite cheaply (everything, as they say, is relative!) - but the fancier optics and cameras get pretty expensive pretty fast. (Not to mention the cost of 4x5 or (shudder!) 8x10 processing; B&W is eminently doable in the home, but IMHO where LF really, really shines is with dias film - developing that at home is not for the faint of heart.)

jonknee 8y ago

And in the scheme of things there is almost no market for medium / large format cameras (digital or otherwise).

ekianjo 8y ago
Of course there is a market. Look at used cameras, they sell at very high prices. There is no "mass market", but there is definitely one with quite a few people willing to pay premium for high end film cameras.
- jonknee 8y ago
  That's why I said "in the scheme of things". It's a tiny business. I love cameras and will probably have a medium format digital camera at some point, but it's a tiny business that can't move the needle in a $34b company like Canon. Put another way, if over night Canon had won 100% market share of all film cameras it would not be noticeable in the next quarterly earnings report.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    It's like saying Ferrari doesn't matter market-wise because they sell only a few thousands cars a year. The same goes for large format film photography.
    - macintux 8y ago
      Ferrari doesn't matter market-wise.
      - soundwave106 8y ago
        But Ferrari matters greatly in the luxury sports car segment. There's no sin in tailoring a business to a small niche. Heck, I'd say "in the grand scheme of things", if you look at some of the data available (https://petapixel.com/2017/03/03/latest-camera-sales-chart-reveals-death-compact-camera/ https://petapixel.com/2017/03/03/latest-camera-sales-chart-r...), stand-alone digital cameras "don't matter market-wise" compared to what has replaced them for a lot of people -- smartphones. Not that all stand alone digital cameras will disappear anytime soon (especially in segments like the DSLR market where the lenses can offer advantages for certain pictures), but the general purpose "compact digital camera" is probably doomed.
      - bronson 8y ago
        If that's true then why does everybody know who they are?
        gambiting 8y ago
        Why would there be a correlation here? Ferrari could disappear tomorrow, and it would have zero effect on the automotive market.
        bronson 8y ago
        On sales? Sure. But the market as a whole? Ferrari is an outsize innovator, both in technology and design. If they disappeared, you'd notice.
- Finnucane 8y ago
  A couple of years ago I bought a Hasselblad 503cx w/80mm lens, paid about $1000 for it. Also, a 50mm CF that cost me around another $400. So relatively expensive for a 25-year-old camera, but in inflation-adjusted terms about 10 percent of it's original price. Some desirable cameras still have some value, but a lot are going for pennies on the dollar. I paid more for the 'blad than either of my 4x5's.
vvanders 8y ago
I think people who work in business side of large scale print would disagree. Granted it's no where near the scale of consumer SLRs but there's a reason MF/LF cameras exist.
sureaboutthis 8y ago
Don't tell the medium and large format professionals in agencies and art works around the world. They'll be shocked to hear that.
- jonknee 8y ago
  I actually don't think they'd be shocked, it's not like there's a ton of activity in the segment. They're crucial tools needed by small numbers of people.
  - sureaboutthis 8y ago
    Sorry but you don't know the market and there is far more going on than you appear to be aware of.

ekianjo 8y ago

I think you can get digital backs starting about 8k for medium format TLR. But yeah, as you point out, higher end digital backs sell for a fortune.

exelius 8y ago

That’s a small market, and most photogs I know who shoot MF/LF film are using cameras that are 50+ years old (Hasselblads mostly). A digital back can improve workflow, but quality is still better with film at those sizes. These are studio cameras through and through; and I was able to connect a Hasselblad to some el cheapo Chinese lighting setup I bought on Amazon a year ago. That’s backwards compatibility.

evasote 8y ago
Yep - I have a friend who takes pictures of (very expensive, high profile) weddings all around the world with a MF film Hasselblad. They still can't be beat
- splintercell 8y ago
  Hasselblad is like Montblanc of fountain pens, or Glock for handguns, at the end of the day, there is a leader in any field and they get exponentially high attention (because everyone can name that one leading brand name in any field), so they just charge that much more. At the end of the day Hasselblad is only 6x6 (i.e the negative size), but there are many bigger format (in medium format) cameras available like Mamiya 6, Mamiya 7, GW690III (which is 6x9, twice the negative size of Hasselblad H1's 6x4.5).
  - anta40 8y ago
    Hasselblad is nice, and fortunately not that expensive these days (probably Leica gears are still costlier :p ) If you are looking for the ultimate medium format system camera, the obvious answer is Fuji GX680. It's waay bigger than the Hassy, and you can also put digital backs on it. The only downside is it's electronic camera, not mechanical.
    - splintercell 8y ago
      I have a GW690II, have you used that one? Do you know how does it compare with GX680?