4 ms·

It is when you conveniently fail to mention the vast list of countries, many of which are on this map, whose stratification is far worse than that of the U.S.

by pluto9 8y ago

kungtotte 8y ago
Comparing specifically to Sweden, there is no similarity at all between the US and Sweden when it comes to economic classes and their differences. We have our upper class and working class too, but even those who are working poor here manage with one job and they still enjoy benefits like day care and health care. How many people are hustling two or more jobs to make ends meet in the US? How many of them afford day care? What happens if they break a leg and can't work for a month?
- pluto9 8y ago
  I never said the U.S. deals with economic strata better than every other nation on Earth. In fact, I explicitly said that there are countries who handle it better. So what's your point?
TheCoelacanth 8y ago
Which countries are you referring to? Of the 11 countries with GDP per capita no more than 10% below the US's, I see only 1 (Qatar) with social stratification worse than the US. Of the 26 countries with GDP per capita no more than 50% below the US's, I see only ~three (Qatar, UAE, arguably Singapore) with worse social stratification than the US. So, your argument is basically, "Yay, we're better than two theocratic monarchies whose prosperity is based solely on oil wealth and importing a bunch of virtual slaves from poor countries, maybe better than one technocratic dictatorship, better than a bunch of undeveloped third world countries, but worse than every other single Western democracy. Go us!"
- pluto9 8y ago
  > Of the 11 countries with GDP per capita no more than 10% below the US's I like how you casually discard the vast swath of data that doesn't agree with you.
  - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
    I like how you casually discard the vast majority of the comment. I addressed more or less every country in the world at some point in the comment. It is not an accomplishment for the US to be doing better than a bunch of third world countries that are poor as shit because they were on the losing end of colonialism. It needs to be compared to the other comparably developed countries.
    - pluto9 8y ago
      > It is not an accomplishment for the US to be doing better than a bunch of third world countries I never said it was an accomplishment, just that the U.S. is better than many countries. That was in response to a comment that was implying that the United States is somehow worse than the majority of countries period, not just developed Western nations. You shifted the conversation by arbitrarily declaring that the U.S. should only be compared to a select group of developed countries, which is not the point that I was originally arguing against. But let's go with that for a minute. I assume you're measuring stratification by the Gini coefficient, since you don't say. In that case, what you failed to mention is that the list of countries "less stratified" than the United States also includes Syria, Sudan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan, among many other decidedly unpleasant places. Your implication that some other countries are necessarily "doing it right" compared to the United States because they have a lower Gini coefficient assumes that a lower Gini coefficient is always necessarily a good thing, which is obviously false when you consider all of the data. A lower Gini coefficient does not equal a higher quality of life.

It is when you conveniently fail to mention the vast list of countries, many of which are on this map, whose stratification is far worse than that of the U.S.

by pluto9 8y ago

It is when you conveniently fail to mention the vast list of countries, many of which are on this map, whose stratification is far worse than that of the U.S.

kungtotte 8y ago

Comparing specifically to Sweden, there is no similarity at all between the US and Sweden when it comes to economic classes and their differences. We have our upper class and working class too, but even those who are working poor here manage with one job and they still enjoy benefits like day care and health care. How many people are hustling two or more jobs to make ends meet in the US? How many of them afford day care? What happens if they break a leg and can't work for a month?

pluto9 8y ago
I never said the U.S. deals with economic strata better than every other nation on Earth. In fact, I explicitly said that there are countries who handle it better. So what's your point?

TheCoelacanth 8y ago

Which countries are you referring to? Of the 11 countries with GDP per capita no more than 10% below the US's, I see only 1 (Qatar) with social stratification worse than the US. Of the 26 countries with GDP per capita no more than 50% below the US's, I see only ~three (Qatar, UAE, arguably Singapore) with worse social stratification than the US. So, your argument is basically, "Yay, we're better than two theocratic monarchies whose prosperity is based solely on oil wealth and importing a bunch of virtual slaves from poor countries, maybe better than one technocratic dictatorship, better than a bunch of undeveloped third world countries, but worse than every other single Western democracy. Go us!"

pluto9 8y ago
> Of the 11 countries with GDP per capita no more than 10% below the US's I like how you casually discard the vast swath of data that doesn't agree with you.
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  I like how you casually discard the vast majority of the comment. I addressed more or less every country in the world at some point in the comment. It is not an accomplishment for the US to be doing better than a bunch of third world countries that are poor as shit because they were on the losing end of colonialism. It needs to be compared to the other comparably developed countries.
  - pluto9 8y ago
    > It is not an accomplishment for the US to be doing better than a bunch of third world countries I never said it was an accomplishment, just that the U.S. is better than many countries. That was in response to a comment that was implying that the United States is somehow worse than the majority of countries period, not just developed Western nations. You shifted the conversation by arbitrarily declaring that the U.S. should only be compared to a select group of developed countries, which is not the point that I was originally arguing against. But let's go with that for a minute. I assume you're measuring stratification by the Gini coefficient, since you don't say. In that case, what you failed to mention is that the list of countries "less stratified" than the United States also includes Syria, Sudan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan, among many other decidedly unpleasant places. Your implication that some other countries are necessarily "doing it right" compared to the United States because they have a lower Gini coefficient assumes that a lower Gini coefficient is always necessarily a good thing, which is obviously false when you consider all of the data. A lower Gini coefficient does not equal a higher quality of life.