3 ms·

Did you HAVE to chase every new API as soon as they came out? Did MFC suddenly stop working? Did the Win32 API go away? Why couldn't you just keep going as you

by shoover 16y ago

Did you HAVE to chase every new API as soon as they came out? Did MFC suddenly stop working? Did the Win32 API go away? Why couldn't you just keep going as you were until you really wanted to rewrite to new APIs?

mahmud 16y ago
Yes, if you want your corporate productivity app to be Office certified. The UI guidelines are pretty clear about how it should look and behave. First MS pushed the new CommonControls from IE on us, then there was an Office update, then XP came out with new UI elements, like rebars. With every new release of Windows, Office or IE, the UI got tweaked. Pretty quickly you couldn't even use vanilla C++ anymore to embed the bulk of widgets/controls from Office to do basic stuff like showing spreadsheets in your app. You had to use COM. I was a sole developer hoping to differentiate myself from other shareware authors by being on MS's good graces. Good grief! I didn't get peace of mind until I dropped them.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  And why is that mahmud? Because most developers, by a HUGE margin, wanted to this in VB. And in VB hosting COM controls in your app was super simple. What I send to see are two classes of MS developers: 1) Those who use the MS stack, but realize they're using tools that they build with and on. 2) Those who use the MS stack, but get stuck thinking that it is the only tool available, period. The second group of developers sometimes gets an epiphany when they change to a non-MS stack, because its so clearly obvious in the non-MS world that there is no stack that is convincingly better than any other. Group two expresses their outrage at the MS stack. While group one is mystified that they ever thought the MS stack is the end all be all. Here's a hint as to how to find them ahead of time. Go talk to the guy who does .NET development today and ask what his favorite third-party controls are. If he has none and says, "I only use MS out the box controls" then this person will eventually become part of second group.
  - mahmud 16y ago
    That diagnosis about the second group fits me to a T. 100% correct you are, Sir. I have been a programmer longer, mostly cracking games and writing x86 asm and DOS stuff with Turbo C; but I became a developer on Microsoft's platform and under their auspices. After Microsoft, I went through a few years of insane productivity and deep, god-level hacking. I have chronicled those stories else on HN. Here is one: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=972423 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=972423 After I found "success" elsewhere as a programmer. When I finally saw a product of mine being used, shipped, bought, deployed. When I started seeing bug-reports, requests for bulk prices, discounts, and yes, piracy. That's when I made peace with Microsoft and went back to using Windows. I am typing this on XP. They're an OK company with an OK platform, just not when you're young and impressionable. Beware of the bastards and use portable, 3rd party libraries. I am done with this thread ..

by shoover 16y ago

mahmud 16y ago

Yes, if you want your corporate productivity app to be Office certified. The UI guidelines are pretty clear about how it should look and behave. First MS pushed the new CommonControls from IE on us, then there was an Office update, then XP came out with new UI elements, like rebars. With every new release of Windows, Office or IE, the UI got tweaked. Pretty quickly you couldn't even use vanilla C++ anymore to embed the bulk of widgets/controls from Office to do basic stuff like showing spreadsheets in your app. You had to use COM. I was a sole developer hoping to differentiate myself from other shareware authors by being on MS's good graces. Good grief! I didn't get peace of mind until I dropped them.

kenjackson 16y ago
And why is that mahmud? Because most developers, by a HUGE margin, wanted to this in VB. And in VB hosting COM controls in your app was super simple. What I send to see are two classes of MS developers: 1) Those who use the MS stack, but realize they're using tools that they build with and on. 2) Those who use the MS stack, but get stuck thinking that it is the only tool available, period. The second group of developers sometimes gets an epiphany when they change to a non-MS stack, because its so clearly obvious in the non-MS world that there is no stack that is convincingly better than any other. Group two expresses their outrage at the MS stack. While group one is mystified that they ever thought the MS stack is the end all be all. Here's a hint as to how to find them ahead of time. Go talk to the guy who does .NET development today and ask what his favorite third-party controls are. If he has none and says, "I only use MS out the box controls" then this person will eventually become part of second group.
- mahmud 16y ago
  That diagnosis about the second group fits me to a T. 100% correct you are, Sir. I have been a programmer longer, mostly cracking games and writing x86 asm and DOS stuff with Turbo C; but I became a developer on Microsoft's platform and under their auspices. After Microsoft, I went through a few years of insane productivity and deep, god-level hacking. I have chronicled those stories else on HN. Here is one: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=972423 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=972423 After I found "success" elsewhere as a programmer. When I finally saw a product of mine being used, shipped, bought, deployed. When I started seeing bug-reports, requests for bulk prices, discounts, and yes, piracy. That's when I made peace with Microsoft and went back to using Windows. I am typing this on XP. They're an OK company with an OK platform, just not when you're young and impressionable. Beware of the bastards and use portable, 3rd party libraries. I am done with this thread ..