4 ms·

Yes, I was surprised by this: > Vermont has budgeted grants for about 100 new remote workers in the first three years of the program and about 20 additional wo

by gk1 8y ago

Yes, I was surprised by this: > Vermont has budgeted grants for about 100 new remote workers in the first three years of the program and about 20 additional workers per year for every year after. Vermont lost 10,000 working-age residents over the past five years.[1] This plan will (in theory) recover just ~1% of that. Maybe they're monitoring reactions to this announcement before they put more money into the program? Otherwise I don't see how this is supposed to make any difference to their problem. [1] https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/money/2016/07/21/vermont-aging-faster-than-rest-united-states/87263398/ https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/money/2016/07/21/v...

Spooky23 8y ago
With skiing in the east an industry in rough shape since it doesn't snow anymore, and agriculture in a slow death spiral, Vermont is trying to embrace it's potential as a bedroom community for NYC and Boston. Burlington is a cool little city and the countryside is beautiful as well. If they can use a small program like this to stimulate some cadre of "pioneers", they'll get alot of value, and perhaps some improved outlooks for underutilized former IBM people.
- superplussed 8y ago
  I hadn't heard that there has been a decline in snowfall, it's pretty stark in the Pacific West: https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-snowfall https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica...
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    I live in Upstate NY. We get snowfall, but after the storm blows out, it gets warm. This January/February, I cleared my roof of snow wearing shorts, and the temp was around 65-70.
  - wuliwong 8y ago
    I don't totally understand the figure. What is determining the number of data points taken? It looks like the density of readings in the NW is much higher than in the NE.
    - VideriQuamEsse 8y ago
      I would assume that most of the snowfall data comes from ski resorts, and there are a lot more of those in the west than in the east.
      - cmurf 8y ago
        Snowfall data at ski resorts isn't reliable because they make snow, and the incentive is to lie toward favorable amounts for marketing purposes. In Colorado a few years ago a number of resorts were caught blatantly fabricating snowfall amounts and then they combated this with variations on snow stake cams published on their web site. Anyway, there are quite a few NOAA SNOTEL sites all over that have reliable data and for sure snow pack is on a decline, and there's also USDA NRCS who use that data and publish agricultural specific interpretations of it. Further, due to budget constraints, some of these data may stop being tracked and produced altogether. https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/co_swepctnormal_update.png https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/co_swepctnor... https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/mt_swepctnormal_update.png https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/mt_swepctnor... Note the notice under the date.
  - nck4222 8y ago
    By that data Vermont has slightly increased rates of snowfall over the last 70 years. This paper also references studies that predict Vermont will see an increase of snow over the next few decades as well: https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282 https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282
- ataturk 8y ago
  Well, they should quit pissing off hard-working gun owners who reside there! Those feel-good laws they just passed have angered a lot of people, all to play up to the usual loud voices who are wrong/misguided about public policy.
- odonnellryan 8y ago
  Stowe has co-working spaces. Hudson County NJ doesn't have those (not really). Crazy.
  - jermaustin1 8y ago
    Hoboken has a couple. I used to live in Edgewater (not Hudson County, though), they opened one right as I moved to upstate NY.
    - odonnellryan 8y ago
      I know Hoboken has one or two at least, but I'm North Bergen so closer to Edgewater than Hoboken! I can actually (and have) walked to Edgewater. I was definitely not being completely honest, but there is an insane number of people in Hudson county, it's surprising there aren't offices for corworking spaces. But I guess because of the demographics and most people absolutely not being in tech is the answer.
- rograndom 8y ago
  The big resorts make their own snow so it's not like things are completely dead. But there is the subconscious thing for visitors nearby where if there's no snow in NYC or Boston they forget that there is always snow on the major mountains here.
  - vkou 8y ago
    Artificial snow is atrocious to ski on. It's incredibly sticky, and towards the middle of the day, feels like wading through mashed potatoes.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  >"With skiing in the east an industry in rough shape since it doesn't snow anymore, and agriculture in a slow death spiral,..." Can you elaborate on the slow death spiral of agriculture part? Are you talking about the effects of globalization factory farms or something else specific to Vermont/Northesat?
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    Sure. Dairy is dying for various reasons, and supplemental sources of income like Maple sugaring are impacted by climate change. Vegetable businesses are tough as well as plots are small and you cannot compete with massive agribusinesses in California and South America.
    - bogomipz 8y ago
      Interesting I had not heard this about the dairy industry. Indeed it seems they even had a congressional bailout of sorts recently as well. Thanks.
- mbell 8y ago
  > With skiing in the east an industry in rough shape since it doesn't snow anymore I'm not sure where you are coming up with that. In fact many places in the NE have have multiple top 10 all time snowfalls in the last 10 years. Climate change is expected to increase the precipitation in New England, particularly in the winter and the temperature increase can result in more snow due to the increased ability of the air to hold moisture. In general we'll probably have better skiing for the next few decades at which point snow _may_ start to be replaced with rain, depending on how high the temp goes where you happen to be.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    The temperature swings are the killer — I think they lose about 8-10 days per season as compared to the 80s. https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282 https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282
    - mbell 8y ago
      That seems to be based on this paper: http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr2009/39/c039p001.pdf http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr2009/39/c039p001.pdf That is a really weird paper, basically they are assuming that the 98-99 season is representative of some abstract season in the 2040-2069 time period which is at best a questionable assumption. But even with the questionability they are showing a 8-10day decrease sometime in 2040-2069? I think they also leave out major changes in snowmaking. The mountains I visit have lost a lot of access to snowmaking due to regulations limiting their water use and changes to what bacterium are used for nucleation. The temperature swings are in some cases actually a benefit for season longevity. What you often want is a good dumping early in the season and then some rain / wet snow followed by a freeze to build a good hard base for later in the season.

by gk1 8y ago

Spooky23 8y ago

With skiing in the east an industry in rough shape since it doesn't snow anymore, and agriculture in a slow death spiral, Vermont is trying to embrace it's potential as a bedroom community for NYC and Boston. Burlington is a cool little city and the countryside is beautiful as well. If they can use a small program like this to stimulate some cadre of "pioneers", they'll get alot of value, and perhaps some improved outlooks for underutilized former IBM people.

superplussed 8y ago
I hadn't heard that there has been a decline in snowfall, it's pretty stark in the Pacific West: https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-snowfall https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica...
- Spooky23 8y ago
  I live in Upstate NY. We get snowfall, but after the storm blows out, it gets warm. This January/February, I cleared my roof of snow wearing shorts, and the temp was around 65-70.
- wuliwong 8y ago
  I don't totally understand the figure. What is determining the number of data points taken? It looks like the density of readings in the NW is much higher than in the NE.
  - VideriQuamEsse 8y ago
    I would assume that most of the snowfall data comes from ski resorts, and there are a lot more of those in the west than in the east.
    - cmurf 8y ago
      Snowfall data at ski resorts isn't reliable because they make snow, and the incentive is to lie toward favorable amounts for marketing purposes. In Colorado a few years ago a number of resorts were caught blatantly fabricating snowfall amounts and then they combated this with variations on snow stake cams published on their web site. Anyway, there are quite a few NOAA SNOTEL sites all over that have reliable data and for sure snow pack is on a decline, and there's also USDA NRCS who use that data and publish agricultural specific interpretations of it. Further, due to budget constraints, some of these data may stop being tracked and produced altogether. https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/co_swepctnormal_update.png https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/co_swepctnor... https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/mt_swepctnormal_update.png https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/mt_swepctnor... Note the notice under the date.
- nck4222 8y ago
  By that data Vermont has slightly increased rates of snowfall over the last 70 years. This paper also references studies that predict Vermont will see an increase of snow over the next few decades as well: https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282 https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282
ataturk 8y ago
Well, they should quit pissing off hard-working gun owners who reside there! Those feel-good laws they just passed have angered a lot of people, all to play up to the usual loud voices who are wrong/misguided about public policy.
odonnellryan 8y ago
Stowe has co-working spaces. Hudson County NJ doesn't have those (not really). Crazy.
- jermaustin1 8y ago
  Hoboken has a couple. I used to live in Edgewater (not Hudson County, though), they opened one right as I moved to upstate NY.
  - odonnellryan 8y ago
    I know Hoboken has one or two at least, but I'm North Bergen so closer to Edgewater than Hoboken! I can actually (and have) walked to Edgewater. I was definitely not being completely honest, but there is an insane number of people in Hudson county, it's surprising there aren't offices for corworking spaces. But I guess because of the demographics and most people absolutely not being in tech is the answer.
rograndom 8y ago
The big resorts make their own snow so it's not like things are completely dead. But there is the subconscious thing for visitors nearby where if there's no snow in NYC or Boston they forget that there is always snow on the major mountains here.
- vkou 8y ago
  Artificial snow is atrocious to ski on. It's incredibly sticky, and towards the middle of the day, feels like wading through mashed potatoes.
bogomipz 8y ago
>"With skiing in the east an industry in rough shape since it doesn't snow anymore, and agriculture in a slow death spiral,..." Can you elaborate on the slow death spiral of agriculture part? Are you talking about the effects of globalization factory farms or something else specific to Vermont/Northesat?
- Spooky23 8y ago
  Sure. Dairy is dying for various reasons, and supplemental sources of income like Maple sugaring are impacted by climate change. Vegetable businesses are tough as well as plots are small and you cannot compete with massive agribusinesses in California and South America.
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    Interesting I had not heard this about the dairy industry. Indeed it seems they even had a congressional bailout of sorts recently as well. Thanks.
mbell 8y ago
> With skiing in the east an industry in rough shape since it doesn't snow anymore I'm not sure where you are coming up with that. In fact many places in the NE have have multiple top 10 all time snowfalls in the last 10 years. Climate change is expected to increase the precipitation in New England, particularly in the winter and the temperature increase can result in more snow due to the increased ability of the air to hold moisture. In general we'll probably have better skiing for the next few decades at which point snow _may_ start to be replaced with rain, depending on how high the temp goes where you happen to be.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  The temperature swings are the killer — I think they lose about 8-10 days per season as compared to the 80s. https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282 https://www.northeastern.edu/climatereview/?p=282
  - mbell 8y ago
    That seems to be based on this paper: http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr2009/39/c039p001.pdf http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr2009/39/c039p001.pdf That is a really weird paper, basically they are assuming that the 98-99 season is representative of some abstract season in the 2040-2069 time period which is at best a questionable assumption. But even with the questionability they are showing a 8-10day decrease sometime in 2040-2069? I think they also leave out major changes in snowmaking. The mountains I visit have lost a lot of access to snowmaking due to regulations limiting their water use and changes to what bacterium are used for nucleation. The temperature swings are in some cases actually a benefit for season longevity. What you often want is a good dumping early in the season and then some rain / wet snow followed by a freeze to build a good hard base for later in the season.