12 ms·

Vermont will cover $10K of expenses for people who move there and work remotely

275 points by swlkr 8y ago

sandworm101 8y ago
Remote workers are the golden goose for local governments. Working from home means they aren't commuting, so no increased peak demands on roads or transit. And they are all 20-somethings who don't need healthcare nor have school-age children. Like crypto-mining, remote workers sit quietly in their rooms. Feed them electricity and internet and they generate tax dollars. It's all a myth. Such people do not exist.
beachwood23 8y ago
I was raised in Vermont, and moved away to the Philly area for college, and stayed here because the job opportunities are so much greater in East coast metro areas. Vermont is very insecure about its ability to "hold on" to its young people. Probably for a good reason, because the majority of young persons who remain in the state after high school are the ones who only graduate from high school. I'm interested to see how this scheme works for the state. I'd assume their goal is to bring college-educated young persons to the state.
- protonimitate 8y ago
  I think it's great remote work is starting to catch on. I think it could help revitalize a lot of the rural areas just outside of major metro footprints. I am also born and raised New England, NH and ME could also benefit from this type of program (although Portland seems to be more up and coming). There's a lot of really good reasons to escape the Boston bubble, but unfortunately companies are holding tight to brick and mortar operations in the 'hip' downtown neighborhoods.
  - SaltyBackendGuy 8y ago
    As a side effect, perhaps even lower cost of living in metro areas due to people being able to work/live in more rural areas.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    In my experience, proportionally, more smart young people who have the skills for tech work prefer living in cities with other like minded people. So if you want to hire them, you have to be there otherwise someone else will employ them.
    - bluntfang 8y ago
      Maybe confirmation bias?
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        I’m using the sky high rents and unrelenting demand in popular cities around the world as a data point. Also, being physically close to other intelligent people offers network effects that, while I don’t have a study to prove it with, just kind of makes sense to me. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
    - eertami 8y ago
      Then have the office in the city and allow remote work as an option, best of both? I've done both, a lot for those smart young people you mention, often lack hobbies, and those ones are extremely boring. I'd rather remote in from a mountain town where I can ski, mountain bike and hike than suffer year round with decreased QoL of a city.
      - pavel_lishin 8y ago
        One man's decrease in QoL is another man's increase, when it comes to the rural/urban distinction.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      Or they choose different careers because they don't want to live in the city with a bunch of people who think nothing like them. A good chunk of the EEs where I went to school were doing it instead of CS because there were fewer CS options that didn't involve moving to a culturally incompatible city. edit: The clock strikes lunchtime in SV and suddenly everything I posted today gets down-voted. It kind of illustrates my point about culture compatibility.
lsalvatore 8y ago
> Vermont has budgeted grants for about 100 new remote workers in the first three years of the program and about 20 additional workers per year for every year after So only 33 people will access this opportunity for next year. And we have to assume these will be very young people who intend to stay there and repopulate the state?
rando444 8y ago
Article title is misleading. They're offering reimbursement for incurred expenses, not paying people. State is offering to cover costs of computer hardware, internet, co-working rental space, and relocation. (Max $5k/yr)
- 3pt14159 8y ago
  Right, but I easily spend $5k/yr for two years on those things. It's essentially the same thing.
- wh313 8y ago
  Still, $5k of computer hardware could get you some high quality stuff.
unit91 8y ago
From the law: > (3) The Agency shall award grants under the Program on a first-come, first-served basis, subject to available funding, as follows: (A) not more than $125,000.00 in calendar year 2019... With such a small budget, it seems like the actual intent may have been to allocate up to $125K to generate advertising about their state. https://legislature.vermont.gov/assets/Documents/2018/Docs/BILLS/S-0094/S-0094%20As%20Passed%20by%20Both%20House%20and%20Senate%20Unofficial.pdf https://legislature.vermont.gov/assets/Documents/2018/Docs/B...
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  As we are talking about living and working in Vermont on a technology focused news aggregation site, I would call that a success. Part of the reasoning given in the article is to shore up the "rapidly sinking tax base" of the state and it reminds me that we don't have a good example of governments that both grow and shrink based on the economic activity of the state. That is something that could really help areas remain stable for longer periods of time I expect.
  - intrasight 8y ago
    US governments aren't very good at this - because they don't bank the good times. How many US governments have "Sovereign wealth funds"?
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      I can guarantee you that states that did would be hammered by anti-tax people thinking that they were overtaxed.
      - zdragnar 8y ago
        To be honest, most "anti-tax" people are fine with the theory, but don't trust that it will be well managed and, more importantly, preserved for lean times. Too often surpluses are immediately funneled to special projects that we could have been better off without. The "pro-tax" people in my area are also generally against this sort of thing, because they want nothing more than to take more money and spend it on special constituencies. For example, my state passed a sales tax that was sold to us as a way to better preserve our parks, wild lands and cultural heritage. About 19% has gone to the DNR, which means less actually went to the stated cause. The rest is being funneled to art projects that are poorly received and utilized. Mind you, this is in a state that's very pro-taxation, and otherwise very liberal.
jamisteven 8y ago
Misleading title, but regardless they will need to do alot more than that to attract a younger populace.
- DFHippie 8y ago
  This maybe isn't the only thing they're doing.
zellyn 8y ago
$10,000 is less than what Silicon Valley firms will cover just for relocation. I guess if you're thinking of doing it anyway, it could push you over the edge. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ggg9990 8y ago
  It’s not going to make anyone move to a cabin in the woods. But if you have already decided to move to a cabin in the woods, it might make you pick Vermont over New Hampshire.
  - drewnick 8y ago
    If you’re moved by money, you would choose New Hampshire for the no income tax if choosing between the two. Vermont is 6.8% over 37k.
  - saudioger 8y ago
    Vermont has higher property taxes, income taxes, and sales taxes. If $10k can sway you, you're very short-sighted.
    - DFHippie 8y ago
      Whether $10k can sway you says nothing whatsoever about your wisdom. It is one factor in a multitude. Some people will like Vermont enough for other reasons that this is sufficient motivation. Other people will never have thought about it and this offer will make them start to do so. Some of these will fall into the first camp. Even if your only consideration is your income, tax rates are a very small part of this. If you pay no local taxes but have to hire someone to clear the snow and blowdowns off your road, you're still out that money. If you have no town water or sewer, you have to pay someone to provide and maintain those services. Very few people consider only tax burden when choosing where to live. If that were so, people would be flocking to Kansas instead of San Francisco. The larger point, though, is that some people will be closer to the decision boundary and $10k will move the boundary far enough to put them over.
PakG1 8y ago
This is interesting. I'm hearing more and more examples of cities are pulling out more and more stops to attract people. Maybe I was just ignorant about them before. Free land if you move to the Yukon to do farming: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-farming-landrights-idUSKBN1AA27M https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-farming-landrights... And then there's Shenzhen's peacock plan to attract foreign experts for high-tech startups, 6 figures USD for individuals who meet certain criteria, and millions USD for teams: http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2017/08/01/incentives-shenzhen-attracting-foreign-talent.html http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2017/08/01/incentives-she...
- bmelton 8y ago
  Homesteading is an old American tradition dating back to the old land rush. Even today, there are places in America (and elsewhere) that will give you land or money if you promise to build a house on it, or turn it into a farm, or stay there for x number of years, what have you.
- HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
  There are also states that will pay for your education if you provide services. I had a friend whose MS in nursing was completely paid for by the state in exchange for agreeing to work at a clinic in a low-income neighborhood for 2 years. She loved the work, the state got a motivated Nurse. Win-win.
1024core 8y ago
This sounds more like a publicity stunt than an actual attempt at solving the problem. Having said that: I've been to Vermont in the Fall, and it. is. stunning.
- vthallam 8y ago
  Fall and Summer are really great! Winter sucks unless you are into skiing.
  - nraynaud 8y ago
    I have skied in Vermont, don't do that, it's just white ice, any fall can be dangerous.
    - jnwatson 8y ago
      From the West Coast? Vermont has the best East coast skiing. I’d put it in the bottom quartile of West coast skiing. It isn’t bad at all, but it will never compete with the Rockies.
      - minor3rd 8y ago
        > Vermont has the best East coast skiing. I’d put it in the bottom quartile of West coast skiing. Yep. I learned to snowboard on the east coast and when I came out west, I was amazed at how much "better" I was overnight. I really am better now, but it doesn't hurt to have good snow.
      - nraynaud 8y ago
        From the French Alps. But it's really a climate issue, the nights are just too cold, everything freezes.
        hueving 8y ago
        I think you mean the days are too hot. :) All of the good skiing in the rockies is in areas where it can easily go weeks without it getting above freezing.
ggg9990 8y ago
Northern New England will have to get its heroin problem under control before it will be appealing to the “remote programmer moving to rural area for peace and quiet and lower cost of living.”
- wpdev_63 8y ago
  Some parts of vermont are very nice and the people are progressive. They have a drug problem in major cities but what else is new.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  I live in a rural area with similar neighbors. Their drug habits have never been a problem for me.
- nraynaud 8y ago
  I don't think drug problems have really hindered the gentrification of SF or NYC. And we are talking way bigger quantities and associated violence than jobless rednecks in rural Vermont.
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    Per capita, it’s much worse in the northeast than in SF or NYC. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mortality/drug_poisoning.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mor...
- wil421 8y ago
  Right and the massive homeless/drug problem in California is preventing folks from moving to SF.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    It's not the only reason, but that's one of the reasons why I won't move to SF. There are a lot of reasons why I won't move to a lot of places. Mainly, they're money-related, but it's a big world, and it often pays to be somewhat selective regarding the location issues that concern you most.
jackhack 8y ago
For many, this won't even begin to offset the increase in income and property taxes from this notoriously high-tax state. Individual or business, you're likely to pay more. http://money.cnn.com/gallery/smallbusiness/2012/10/15/state-taxes/4.html http://money.cnn.com/gallery/smallbusiness/2012/10/15/state-... >>The income tax has a top rate of 8.95%. This ranks as the sixth-highest in the U.S., although it only applies to taxpayers making over $413,350 per year. Meanwhile, total state and local sales taxes range from 6% to 7%. >>There are five income brackets. The highest marginal rate is 8.95% on any income over $388,350. That's on top of federal income taxes. >>Businesses pay an effective property tax rate of 5.27%, the third highest in the country. >>At 6%, sales taxes are also on the high side. Meanwhile, those businesses that pay corporate taxes get hit with an 8.5% rate for any profit made above $25,000.
- eezurr 8y ago
  Not to mention Burlington, VT has it's own city sales* tax as well (around 2.5% IIRC)
- DFHippie 8y ago
  I moved to Vermont to work remotely in DC without the $10K incentive. That was some 12 years ago. My quality of life and that of my family is vastly improved. I wouldn't have moved to New Hampshire, though I can see it from where I'm standing in Vermont. The point isn't to get everyone to move, but to motivate some people who otherwise like what Vermont has to offer but are on the edge. If you are more on the European democratic socialist end of the spectrum of preferences and you plan to live in the US, Vermont will probably suit you. If you're on the right-to-workers end, you'd probably prefer someplace else.
  - p1esk 8y ago
    Where did you move from, and how has your life improved?
    - DFHippie 8y ago
      From DC. DC has its advantages: free museums, good mass transit by US standards, lots of federal money being spent locally, a diverse ethnic mix with accompanying cultural and culinary diversity. The cost of real estate is astronomical, though. The schools generally suck unless you can swing something plush like Sidwell Friends. I've lived in other places as well, always moving for school, employment, or, when I was younger, someone else's school or employment. I found that I could telecommute, though, and so we moved to a place we wanted to be for its own sake. The things I like about Vermont: the climate, the culture, the natural and built environment. And frankly I like living in a place where I don't have to apologize for the cruel, exploitative history or the short-sighted or selfish political decisions of the populace. It's beautiful. There's a lot of art. My kids' school has great teachers, great facilities, and a lot of options. I have family who moved to the area, so that helps. The food is good. I walk into town to work. I can walk out my back door with my kids and hike to the top of a hill and have a beautiful view. I can take the bus home in the evening if the weather is bad. (I don't telecommute anymore, though I can work from home when I please.) We were living in a basement in DC. Now we have a house beside a brook.
nathan_f77 8y ago
This is great. I was really excited until I realized that you have to be a US citizen. I'd be happy to skip the $10,000 if I could get a work permit or a green card.
rpoconn1 8y ago
Looks up tax rates for Vermont No thanks.
- beauzero 8y ago
  If you are looking for warmer I would suggest Carrollton, GA, Montgomery, AL or Chattanooga, TN. AL has the second lowest property taxes in the USA and while not 2015 Detroit cheap it does have 2018 Detroit cheap housing prices.
  - saudioger 8y ago
    Unfortunately all of these places are in the south.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - sudosteph 8y ago
    I've heard good things about Chattanooga due to their municipal gigabit, have been meaning to check it out. I was really surprised by how nice AL was too last time I drove through it. All that said, if I go back south, it will be hard to not pick NC. Asheville doesn't have much industry for tech, but it's exactly the kind of culture (hippies, artists, bluegrass, great food) and weather I've been missing. Cost of living is high by NC standards, but not for remote workers. Definitely more appealing than Vermont for most folks who don't need to be near Boston or NYC.
toss1 8y ago
Vermont is a wonderful natural bucolic place to live. Unfortunately, I discovered the hard way that the problem they are trying to solve is likely far more intractable than that program. I co-founded a software/networking biz in VT some years ago. We really thought it was great, loved the lifestyle -- e.g., literally step out the door at lunch for a run or mtn bike in the woods, or walking meetings in the fields or woods -- just awesome! We thought it'd be easy to convince others to come up and grow with us. Wrong. Ultimately had to move to north of Boston, then grew & sold. I really wish more people would 'get it', but it just didn't work that way. Seeing that socialization seems paradoxically more city-oriented now despite far better connectivity tech, I'm even less optimistic now about it. I really hope I'm wrong and they can kickstart a tech-in-the-woods common lifestyle... and at least with this program, a few dozen people will enjoy some great years there!
- DFHippie 8y ago
  Try one of the towns along the southern Connecticut River valley. You're a couple of hours from Boston. You can take the train the NYC. You have urban/college town amenities and culture if you want it. You can walk to nature if you want it. The schools are good. The traffic is good.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
    I lived in one of those towns before moving to Minnesota. It's nice, but not even close to the same thing.
  - Dirlewanger 8y ago
    CT is experiencing a similar flight of taxpayers (particularly milliennials). Companies that have been there for decades are leaving for other states. Hartford is on life support and verging on bankruptcy. CT is not the place for starting a modern tech company.
- Jimpulse 8y ago
  People are attracted to that lifestyle, unfortunately Vermont is missing a few pieces of the puzzle. Tons of people are moving to Denver and the surrounding cities where you get access to nature with the upside of still being close to major city.
PaulHoule 8y ago
Lots of hills and low population density. I bet it is hard to get good internet in Vermont. Universal access to broadband would matter more than anything else.
- DFHippie 8y ago
  It depends on where you are. It's fine where I'm standing. If you want to live in a dairy farm at the end of a dirt road you will have problems.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
    I was at someone's house/trailer a few weeks ago and he had satellite internet. I have no idea what the upload speeds are like, but we spent most of the time watching YouTube videos and it was at least as good as my DSL at home (I live about 10 miles outside town).
- dsr_ 8y ago
  It's easy if you live quite close to: Burlington, Rutland, Barre, Montpelier, Winooski, St. Albans and otherwise a matter of luck. Those are the top six cities by population, and the top two put together are about the same as my suburb of Boston. St. Albans is about 30 minutes from Burlington and an hour and a bit from Montreal; you can get access to culture and technology, but you'll need to drive.
  - volkl48 8y ago
    There's certainly quite a few other areas with decent internet, at least if you are in the main "town" area. Bennington, WRJ + Norwich come to mind as other examples I can think of. But yes, if you are in a random small town or rural area the odds aren't great for decent internet. (For that matter, that even applies to cell phone service, lots of dead zones in VT).
- amichal 8y ago
  It can be but its much better then it was 5 years ago even in smaller towns. My office is on fiber. My house has 50 mbit cable that is quite reliable and never over subscribed. Friends that live several miles out dirt roads have either satellite, dsl, or, increasingly often, LTE or Wifi-based service. LTE/Wifi/Cable and fiber all have plenty > 25Mbit options (up to 1GB most of the time) and even DSL and satellite do fine for NetFlix etc.
eezurr 8y ago
I've lived in Burlington, VT for the last two years, having moved from a large city. The brain drain is real. I am leaving the state soon because I simply cannot relate to people and culture up here. (Note, this is for people who are < 35. There are a lot more >35 year olds up here with families who I never met). There's an inverse bell curve of age distribution. I've discovered slightly above average intelligent people up here think they are much smarter than they are, due to the people/coworkers they are surrounded by. I've only met three highly intelligent people in my two years here. Two of them are also leaving within a year. It's a shame, because Burlington is easily the most beautiful city I have lived in. Bike trails boarder the lake and outdoor recreation are all within an hour's drive. The produce up here is the best I've had (like wow, can't go back good). The restaurant cuisines up here are diverse and plentiful (although the quality is lacking for some reason). Everything is so green up here. The weather is usually great. It's a place to retire and maybe raise family, if you can handle the snow. Otherwise, if you're a younger adult with drive and ambition, you will not enjoy your stay.
- ErikAugust 8y ago
  I moved 5-6 years ago and admit it's easy for your ambition to be outsized there. I moved to Boston and realized I wasn't all that ambitious after all. I wanted to move back to VT for the outdoors - however, I moved to the Mountain West and realized it has much more outdoors and much more of a tech economy, so I never moved back. Bonus: While we have all the winter mountain sports here at their highest levels, there's also 300 days of sunshine and much higher average winter temperatures where I now live! Good luck breaking single digit temps (F) in the worst winter months in Northern VT.
- camdenlock 8y ago
  Just curious, what do you mean by “intelligent” here? What kinds of people is Vermont losing exactly?
  - eezurr 8y ago
    Without writing a novel and acknowledging the difficulty it is to measure intelligence... People who: /what VT is missing is: - Can process what one is saying in real time and propose alternative view points or point out flaws in one's logic in seconds. - Are capable of thinking outside of the box. Some puzzle pieces will never be found because they need to be created first. - Have drive and ambition to do things other than watch TV/go to the beach/get high or drink after work. - Interest in furthering their education/knowledge/life goals. Complacency is very common. - People who are unafraid of their viewpoints being challenged/analyzed; unafraid to rationalize their beliefs. - Self awareness/presence. In saying all of this, I do not look down on people for their life choices. They just live a simpler life than I can be comfortable with.
readhn 8y ago
honestly $10000 is not a lot of money these days to make someone move to a different state. Make it $50,000-100,000 in tax credits and people will consider. They have to be more aggressive with their offer in order to have any decent amount of response. $10000 does not even buy you a decent cheap car.
gwbas1c 8y ago
(sob) I just moved for my wife's job. We really like Stowe and wanted to end up close by. (I'm tired of moving and won't move again.)
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
People seem to be taking for granted that this is a good thing. In the short term of course attracting highly paid people is a good thing. In the longer term it's only a benefit if you're the kind of person who looks at Boston and thinks it's a good, highly functional society. Most of northern new England looks at Boston/MA and sees high cost of living, government that micromanages individuals and lots of crime. Having lived in various places in MA (including Boston) as well as NH, VT and ME I'm inclined to agree. Boston has jobs and nothing else. Ask people who grew up in NH, VT, ME what kind of people make the place worse and they won't say baby boomers with backwards beliefs, blacks, or bigots, they'll say "Massholes." Just from living among and talking to people in ME/VT/NH states you'll quickly get the sense that it's not the material difference that make them like the place but the cultural ones. Many people choose to live in ME, NH and VT specifically because they do not have the same busybody, sort of socialist culture (cut me some slack, it's a nebulous and hard to pin down difference) as MA. Trying to be culturally like Boston will be the death of these states. Seriously, they're biggest industry is tourism and part of the selling point is culture and image. Part of the "branding" of northern New England is that it's a land of freedom compared to MA. You can buy beer at the grocery store, light off fireworks without cops showing up and park a project car on your lawn without your neighbors trying to get the town to bend an obscure and irreverent by law to harass you. Whether these differences are material or not doesn't matter, they're part of the branding. If people wanted to go vacation in the woods and wanted to do it in MA they could head west on I-90. If people wanted to go to the beach and do it in MA they could do it on the south-coast or cape cod. I could go on and on and on about how to the people in NH/VT/ME the culture is more important than the money, sure they want money too but you'd be hard pressed to find someone from one of those states that thinks any amount of money or economic development is worth letting the place turn into MA. Yes I know that a lot of you might not be able to relate to this sentiment at all but encouraging people from MA to move to NH/VT/ME is a very thorny subject for most people in NH/VT/ME I get that ~30-something people per year isn't much but it's the sentiment of "we should be like Boston because money" (which is a prerequisite to "we should be an attractive place for people with money from Boston to relocate) is dangerous (yes I know there's nothing stopping people who are from northern New England but suffering through living in MA because that's where the jobs are from taking advantage of this program). I think the focus should be on retaining talent, not importing it. To all the people mentioning that the CoL in Vermont is fairly high for how rural it is, well you can thank NY for that. Upstate NY and VT have their CoL inflated by all the NYC money that wants to have a vacation home or retire away from the problem. Pretty much any "tourist" destination that an upper middle class couple with kids can drive to for a weekend will have this issue. Look at housing land prices in ME and driving time to Boston for example.
amichal 8y ago
I can't resist. We are here with tech jobs waiting. http://www.greenriver.com/jobs http://www.greenriver.com/jobs Edit: On the article: COL is similar to Boston in Brattleboro (for the nice lifestyle that we expect as devs) but in different areas. You need a car for any real transportation and while rents and house prices are less other things are more (internet, heat, etc). There are 3-4 cafes not hundreds. There is a surprising amount of art and theater events and you discover that folks do some amazing things here in the woods. e.g. Parts for the Mars Rovers were made 100ft from my desk. My kids can take circus classes from former Circ du Soleil leads down the street. As a kid I took ski jumping lessons a mile from here from a Olympic medalist. And folks have weird job histories. The woman who runs the stables where my daughter takes horse back riding lessons was a developer on HP-UX in the early days
- fringedgentian 8y ago
  The grant is only for people who work for a company based outside of Vermont.
  - amichal 8y ago
    Sigh... That is just absurd. Our company is domiciled here but nearly all our income comes from outside the state so we provide the same economic benefit. Even if the state wouldn't pay moving expenses I'm sure we would for the right candidates.
- funzis 8y ago
  I was fortunate enough to pass through Brattleboro once and I have to agree, it is a beautiful charming little town. I would love to go back sometime.
ErikAugust 8y ago
I'm a University of Vermont alum, and worked there for several years after college. The IT (and "professional") economy is quite weak. There's a couple bigger web companies, however I know at least one of the biggest off-shores development. Otherwise, a lot of the professional economy is just satellite of the tourism industry. I read recently the superintendent of Burlington schools (Burlington being the big city in Vermont where the university is located) was traveling to China to help recruit high school students. It's a beautiful, mostly rural place - but it's not surprising these initiatives are being taken.
Isamu 8y ago
SF should offer $10K for residents to move to VT.
josefresco 8y ago
Reading through these comments, especially about Burlington reminds me that everything is relative. Coming from a relatively rural area, Burlington appears to be thriving, tech savvy and a wonderful place for a young person. I went to school there in the late 90's and just recently visited with my kids and was blown away by the growth outside the city downtown. My wife and I both were intrigued at the idea of living there and wondered if the town/city could support our small business. However, reading comments from those used to Boston, San Fran or even those who have lived IN Burlington paints a very different picture. I think if you're coming from a rural area, Burlington is a massive upgrade. However don't expect big-city tech infrastructure or any sort of comparable startup scene if your benchmark are the East/West tech hubs.
MikeGalt 8y ago
I think I'd rather join the "Free State"ers in NH than move to VT.
helios893 8y ago
vb
helios893 8y ago
I have lived in VT my entire adult life, and worked in tech/design. Ever couple of years I sit down and end up doing a comparison to see what it would be like to live in say the Bay area or Seattle. It usually comes out the same. I work remotely and know a bunch of other people who do it as well. It's totally doable (though bandwidth penetration to rural area's still sucks and is highly variable.). If you like Vermont, and can handle long winters it's great place to live, work and play.
AYBABTME 8y ago
10k$ is barely enough to cover the moving cost. What's the incentive here?
NickM 8y ago
I've been waiting to see programs like this pop up for a while. Remote workers are an economic dream for whatever region they end up in. They bring in large amounts of money from outside the area, spend it locally, pay local taxes, leave local jobs available for other residents, and generally put less strain on the local infrastructure since they're not commuting. It's basically a win from every angle, and I'm surprised more cities and states don't already have programs like this one.
subway 8y ago
Looks like this would almost cover half the increase in income taxes by moving from WA to VT.
loeg 8y ago
At 6-7% income tax, you can expect to pay that back in the first year or two.
Moncho6- 8y ago
Hi I’m interested, I work for USDA I can work at any of the agencies possibly remote, I’m fully bilingual I have a MPA. My email ariettearana@yahoo.com
Moncho6- 8y ago
I’m interested I Have an MPA, work with federal government. Let me know 787-517-6858

275 points by swlkr 8y ago

Remote workers are the golden goose for local governments. Working from home means they aren't commuting, so no increased peak demands on roads or transit. And they are all 20-somethings who don't need healthcare nor have school-age children. Like crypto-mining, remote workers sit quietly in their rooms. Feed them electricity and internet and they generate tax dollars. It's all a myth. Such people do not exist.

beachwood23 8y ago

I was raised in Vermont, and moved away to the Philly area for college, and stayed here because the job opportunities are so much greater in East coast metro areas. Vermont is very insecure about its ability to "hold on" to its young people. Probably for a good reason, because the majority of young persons who remain in the state after high school are the ones who only graduate from high school. I'm interested to see how this scheme works for the state. I'd assume their goal is to bring college-educated young persons to the state.

protonimitate 8y ago
I think it's great remote work is starting to catch on. I think it could help revitalize a lot of the rural areas just outside of major metro footprints. I am also born and raised New England, NH and ME could also benefit from this type of program (although Portland seems to be more up and coming). There's a lot of really good reasons to escape the Boston bubble, but unfortunately companies are holding tight to brick and mortar operations in the 'hip' downtown neighborhoods.
- SaltyBackendGuy 8y ago
  As a side effect, perhaps even lower cost of living in metro areas due to people being able to work/live in more rural areas.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  In my experience, proportionally, more smart young people who have the skills for tech work prefer living in cities with other like minded people. So if you want to hire them, you have to be there otherwise someone else will employ them.
  - bluntfang 8y ago
    Maybe confirmation bias?
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      I’m using the sky high rents and unrelenting demand in popular cities around the world as a data point. Also, being physically close to other intelligent people offers network effects that, while I don’t have a study to prove it with, just kind of makes sense to me. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
  - eertami 8y ago
    Then have the office in the city and allow remote work as an option, best of both? I've done both, a lot for those smart young people you mention, often lack hobbies, and those ones are extremely boring. I'd rather remote in from a mountain town where I can ski, mountain bike and hike than suffer year round with decreased QoL of a city.
    - pavel_lishin 8y ago
      One man's decrease in QoL is another man's increase, when it comes to the rural/urban distinction.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Or they choose different careers because they don't want to live in the city with a bunch of people who think nothing like them. A good chunk of the EEs where I went to school were doing it instead of CS because there were fewer CS options that didn't involve moving to a culturally incompatible city. edit: The clock strikes lunchtime in SV and suddenly everything I posted today gets down-voted. It kind of illustrates my point about culture compatibility.

lsalvatore 8y ago

> Vermont has budgeted grants for about 100 new remote workers in the first three years of the program and about 20 additional workers per year for every year after So only 33 people will access this opportunity for next year. And we have to assume these will be very young people who intend to stay there and repopulate the state?

rando444 8y ago

Article title is misleading. They're offering reimbursement for incurred expenses, not paying people. State is offering to cover costs of computer hardware, internet, co-working rental space, and relocation. (Max $5k/yr)

3pt14159 8y ago
Right, but I easily spend $5k/yr for two years on those things. It's essentially the same thing.
wh313 8y ago
Still, $5k of computer hardware could get you some high quality stuff.

unit91 8y ago

From the law: > (3) The Agency shall award grants under the Program on a first-come, first-served basis, subject to available funding, as follows: (A) not more than $125,000.00 in calendar year 2019... With such a small budget, it seems like the actual intent may have been to allocate up to $125K to generate advertising about their state. https://legislature.vermont.gov/assets/Documents/2018/Docs/BILLS/S-0094/S-0094%20As%20Passed%20by%20Both%20House%20and%20Senate%20Unofficial.pdf https://legislature.vermont.gov/assets/Documents/2018/Docs/B...

ChuckMcM 8y ago
As we are talking about living and working in Vermont on a technology focused news aggregation site, I would call that a success. Part of the reasoning given in the article is to shore up the "rapidly sinking tax base" of the state and it reminds me that we don't have a good example of governments that both grow and shrink based on the economic activity of the state. That is something that could really help areas remain stable for longer periods of time I expect.
- intrasight 8y ago
  US governments aren't very good at this - because they don't bank the good times. How many US governments have "Sovereign wealth funds"?
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    I can guarantee you that states that did would be hammered by anti-tax people thinking that they were overtaxed.
    - zdragnar 8y ago
      To be honest, most "anti-tax" people are fine with the theory, but don't trust that it will be well managed and, more importantly, preserved for lean times. Too often surpluses are immediately funneled to special projects that we could have been better off without. The "pro-tax" people in my area are also generally against this sort of thing, because they want nothing more than to take more money and spend it on special constituencies. For example, my state passed a sales tax that was sold to us as a way to better preserve our parks, wild lands and cultural heritage. About 19% has gone to the DNR, which means less actually went to the stated cause. The rest is being funneled to art projects that are poorly received and utilized. Mind you, this is in a state that's very pro-taxation, and otherwise very liberal.

jamisteven 8y ago

Misleading title, but regardless they will need to do alot more than that to attract a younger populace.

DFHippie 8y ago
This maybe isn't the only thing they're doing.

zellyn 8y ago

$10,000 is less than what Silicon Valley firms will cover just for relocation. I guess if you're thinking of doing it anyway, it could push you over the edge. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ggg9990 8y ago
It’s not going to make anyone move to a cabin in the woods. But if you have already decided to move to a cabin in the woods, it might make you pick Vermont over New Hampshire.
- drewnick 8y ago
  If you’re moved by money, you would choose New Hampshire for the no income tax if choosing between the two. Vermont is 6.8% over 37k.
- saudioger 8y ago
  Vermont has higher property taxes, income taxes, and sales taxes. If $10k can sway you, you're very short-sighted.
  - DFHippie 8y ago
    Whether $10k can sway you says nothing whatsoever about your wisdom. It is one factor in a multitude. Some people will like Vermont enough for other reasons that this is sufficient motivation. Other people will never have thought about it and this offer will make them start to do so. Some of these will fall into the first camp. Even if your only consideration is your income, tax rates are a very small part of this. If you pay no local taxes but have to hire someone to clear the snow and blowdowns off your road, you're still out that money. If you have no town water or sewer, you have to pay someone to provide and maintain those services. Very few people consider only tax burden when choosing where to live. If that were so, people would be flocking to Kansas instead of San Francisco. The larger point, though, is that some people will be closer to the decision boundary and $10k will move the boundary far enough to put them over.

PakG1 8y ago

This is interesting. I'm hearing more and more examples of cities are pulling out more and more stops to attract people. Maybe I was just ignorant about them before. Free land if you move to the Yukon to do farming: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-farming-landrights-idUSKBN1AA27M https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-farming-landrights... And then there's Shenzhen's peacock plan to attract foreign experts for high-tech startups, 6 figures USD for individuals who meet certain criteria, and millions USD for teams: http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2017/08/01/incentives-shenzhen-attracting-foreign-talent.html http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2017/08/01/incentives-she...

bmelton 8y ago
Homesteading is an old American tradition dating back to the old land rush. Even today, there are places in America (and elsewhere) that will give you land or money if you promise to build a house on it, or turn it into a farm, or stay there for x number of years, what have you.
HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
There are also states that will pay for your education if you provide services. I had a friend whose MS in nursing was completely paid for by the state in exchange for agreeing to work at a clinic in a low-income neighborhood for 2 years. She loved the work, the state got a motivated Nurse. Win-win.

1024core 8y ago

This sounds more like a publicity stunt than an actual attempt at solving the problem. Having said that: I've been to Vermont in the Fall, and it. is. stunning.

vthallam 8y ago
Fall and Summer are really great! Winter sucks unless you are into skiing.
- nraynaud 8y ago
  I have skied in Vermont, don't do that, it's just white ice, any fall can be dangerous.
  - jnwatson 8y ago
    From the West Coast? Vermont has the best East coast skiing. I’d put it in the bottom quartile of West coast skiing. It isn’t bad at all, but it will never compete with the Rockies.
    - minor3rd 8y ago
      > Vermont has the best East coast skiing. I’d put it in the bottom quartile of West coast skiing. Yep. I learned to snowboard on the east coast and when I came out west, I was amazed at how much "better" I was overnight. I really am better now, but it doesn't hurt to have good snow.
    - nraynaud 8y ago
      From the French Alps. But it's really a climate issue, the nights are just too cold, everything freezes.
      - hueving 8y ago
        I think you mean the days are too hot. :) All of the good skiing in the rockies is in areas where it can easily go weeks without it getting above freezing.

ggg9990 8y ago

Northern New England will have to get its heroin problem under control before it will be appealing to the “remote programmer moving to rural area for peace and quiet and lower cost of living.”

wpdev_63 8y ago
Some parts of vermont are very nice and the people are progressive. They have a drug problem in major cities but what else is new.
jessaustin 8y ago
I live in a rural area with similar neighbors. Their drug habits have never been a problem for me.
nraynaud 8y ago
I don't think drug problems have really hindered the gentrification of SF or NYC. And we are talking way bigger quantities and associated violence than jobless rednecks in rural Vermont.
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Per capita, it’s much worse in the northeast than in SF or NYC. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mortality/drug_poisoning.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mor...
wil421 8y ago
Right and the massive homeless/drug problem in California is preventing folks from moving to SF.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  It's not the only reason, but that's one of the reasons why I won't move to SF. There are a lot of reasons why I won't move to a lot of places. Mainly, they're money-related, but it's a big world, and it often pays to be somewhat selective regarding the location issues that concern you most.

jackhack 8y ago

For many, this won't even begin to offset the increase in income and property taxes from this notoriously high-tax state. Individual or business, you're likely to pay more. http://money.cnn.com/gallery/smallbusiness/2012/10/15/state-taxes/4.html http://money.cnn.com/gallery/smallbusiness/2012/10/15/state-... >>The income tax has a top rate of 8.95%. This ranks as the sixth-highest in the U.S., although it only applies to taxpayers making over $413,350 per year. Meanwhile, total state and local sales taxes range from 6% to 7%. >>There are five income brackets. The highest marginal rate is 8.95% on any income over $388,350. That's on top of federal income taxes. >>Businesses pay an effective property tax rate of 5.27%, the third highest in the country. >>At 6%, sales taxes are also on the high side. Meanwhile, those businesses that pay corporate taxes get hit with an 8.5% rate for any profit made above $25,000.

eezurr 8y ago
Not to mention Burlington, VT has it's own city sales* tax as well (around 2.5% IIRC)
DFHippie 8y ago
I moved to Vermont to work remotely in DC without the $10K incentive. That was some 12 years ago. My quality of life and that of my family is vastly improved. I wouldn't have moved to New Hampshire, though I can see it from where I'm standing in Vermont. The point isn't to get everyone to move, but to motivate some people who otherwise like what Vermont has to offer but are on the edge. If you are more on the European democratic socialist end of the spectrum of preferences and you plan to live in the US, Vermont will probably suit you. If you're on the right-to-workers end, you'd probably prefer someplace else.
- p1esk 8y ago
  Where did you move from, and how has your life improved?
  - DFHippie 8y ago
    From DC. DC has its advantages: free museums, good mass transit by US standards, lots of federal money being spent locally, a diverse ethnic mix with accompanying cultural and culinary diversity. The cost of real estate is astronomical, though. The schools generally suck unless you can swing something plush like Sidwell Friends. I've lived in other places as well, always moving for school, employment, or, when I was younger, someone else's school or employment. I found that I could telecommute, though, and so we moved to a place we wanted to be for its own sake. The things I like about Vermont: the climate, the culture, the natural and built environment. And frankly I like living in a place where I don't have to apologize for the cruel, exploitative history or the short-sighted or selfish political decisions of the populace. It's beautiful. There's a lot of art. My kids' school has great teachers, great facilities, and a lot of options. I have family who moved to the area, so that helps. The food is good. I walk into town to work. I can walk out my back door with my kids and hike to the top of a hill and have a beautiful view. I can take the bus home in the evening if the weather is bad. (I don't telecommute anymore, though I can work from home when I please.) We were living in a basement in DC. Now we have a house beside a brook.

nathan_f77 8y ago

This is great. I was really excited until I realized that you have to be a US citizen. I'd be happy to skip the $10,000 if I could get a work permit or a green card.

rpoconn1 8y ago

Looks up tax rates for Vermont No thanks.

beauzero 8y ago
If you are looking for warmer I would suggest Carrollton, GA, Montgomery, AL or Chattanooga, TN. AL has the second lowest property taxes in the USA and while not 2015 Detroit cheap it does have 2018 Detroit cheap housing prices.
- saudioger 8y ago
  Unfortunately all of these places are in the south.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- sudosteph 8y ago
  I've heard good things about Chattanooga due to their municipal gigabit, have been meaning to check it out. I was really surprised by how nice AL was too last time I drove through it. All that said, if I go back south, it will be hard to not pick NC. Asheville doesn't have much industry for tech, but it's exactly the kind of culture (hippies, artists, bluegrass, great food) and weather I've been missing. Cost of living is high by NC standards, but not for remote workers. Definitely more appealing than Vermont for most folks who don't need to be near Boston or NYC.

toss1 8y ago

Vermont is a wonderful natural bucolic place to live. Unfortunately, I discovered the hard way that the problem they are trying to solve is likely far more intractable than that program. I co-founded a software/networking biz in VT some years ago. We really thought it was great, loved the lifestyle -- e.g., literally step out the door at lunch for a run or mtn bike in the woods, or walking meetings in the fields or woods -- just awesome! We thought it'd be easy to convince others to come up and grow with us. Wrong. Ultimately had to move to north of Boston, then grew & sold. I really wish more people would 'get it', but it just didn't work that way. Seeing that socialization seems paradoxically more city-oriented now despite far better connectivity tech, I'm even less optimistic now about it. I really hope I'm wrong and they can kickstart a tech-in-the-woods common lifestyle... and at least with this program, a few dozen people will enjoy some great years there!

DFHippie 8y ago
Try one of the towns along the southern Connecticut River valley. You're a couple of hours from Boston. You can take the train the NYC. You have urban/college town amenities and culture if you want it. You can walk to nature if you want it. The schools are good. The traffic is good.
- HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
  I lived in one of those towns before moving to Minnesota. It's nice, but not even close to the same thing.
- Dirlewanger 8y ago
  CT is experiencing a similar flight of taxpayers (particularly milliennials). Companies that have been there for decades are leaving for other states. Hartford is on life support and verging on bankruptcy. CT is not the place for starting a modern tech company.
Jimpulse 8y ago
People are attracted to that lifestyle, unfortunately Vermont is missing a few pieces of the puzzle. Tons of people are moving to Denver and the surrounding cities where you get access to nature with the upside of still being close to major city.

PaulHoule 8y ago

Lots of hills and low population density. I bet it is hard to get good internet in Vermont. Universal access to broadband would matter more than anything else.

DFHippie 8y ago
It depends on where you are. It's fine where I'm standing. If you want to live in a dairy farm at the end of a dirt road you will have problems.
- HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
  I was at someone's house/trailer a few weeks ago and he had satellite internet. I have no idea what the upload speeds are like, but we spent most of the time watching YouTube videos and it was at least as good as my DSL at home (I live about 10 miles outside town).
dsr_ 8y ago
It's easy if you live quite close to: Burlington, Rutland, Barre, Montpelier, Winooski, St. Albans and otherwise a matter of luck. Those are the top six cities by population, and the top two put together are about the same as my suburb of Boston. St. Albans is about 30 minutes from Burlington and an hour and a bit from Montreal; you can get access to culture and technology, but you'll need to drive.
- volkl48 8y ago
  There's certainly quite a few other areas with decent internet, at least if you are in the main "town" area. Bennington, WRJ + Norwich come to mind as other examples I can think of. But yes, if you are in a random small town or rural area the odds aren't great for decent internet. (For that matter, that even applies to cell phone service, lots of dead zones in VT).
amichal 8y ago
It can be but its much better then it was 5 years ago even in smaller towns. My office is on fiber. My house has 50 mbit cable that is quite reliable and never over subscribed. Friends that live several miles out dirt roads have either satellite, dsl, or, increasingly often, LTE or Wifi-based service. LTE/Wifi/Cable and fiber all have plenty > 25Mbit options (up to 1GB most of the time) and even DSL and satellite do fine for NetFlix etc.

eezurr 8y ago

I've lived in Burlington, VT for the last two years, having moved from a large city. The brain drain is real. I am leaving the state soon because I simply cannot relate to people and culture up here. (Note, this is for people who are < 35. There are a lot more >35 year olds up here with families who I never met). There's an inverse bell curve of age distribution. I've discovered slightly above average intelligent people up here think they are much smarter than they are, due to the people/coworkers they are surrounded by. I've only met three highly intelligent people in my two years here. Two of them are also leaving within a year. It's a shame, because Burlington is easily the most beautiful city I have lived in. Bike trails boarder the lake and outdoor recreation are all within an hour's drive. The produce up here is the best I've had (like wow, can't go back good). The restaurant cuisines up here are diverse and plentiful (although the quality is lacking for some reason). Everything is so green up here. The weather is usually great. It's a place to retire and maybe raise family, if you can handle the snow. Otherwise, if you're a younger adult with drive and ambition, you will not enjoy your stay.

ErikAugust 8y ago
I moved 5-6 years ago and admit it's easy for your ambition to be outsized there. I moved to Boston and realized I wasn't all that ambitious after all. I wanted to move back to VT for the outdoors - however, I moved to the Mountain West and realized it has much more outdoors and much more of a tech economy, so I never moved back. Bonus: While we have all the winter mountain sports here at their highest levels, there's also 300 days of sunshine and much higher average winter temperatures where I now live! Good luck breaking single digit temps (F) in the worst winter months in Northern VT.
camdenlock 8y ago
Just curious, what do you mean by “intelligent” here? What kinds of people is Vermont losing exactly?
- eezurr 8y ago
  Without writing a novel and acknowledging the difficulty it is to measure intelligence... People who: /what VT is missing is: - Can process what one is saying in real time and propose alternative view points or point out flaws in one's logic in seconds. - Are capable of thinking outside of the box. Some puzzle pieces will never be found because they need to be created first. - Have drive and ambition to do things other than watch TV/go to the beach/get high or drink after work. - Interest in furthering their education/knowledge/life goals. Complacency is very common. - People who are unafraid of their viewpoints being challenged/analyzed; unafraid to rationalize their beliefs. - Self awareness/presence. In saying all of this, I do not look down on people for their life choices. They just live a simpler life than I can be comfortable with.

readhn 8y ago

honestly $10000 is not a lot of money these days to make someone move to a different state. Make it $50,000-100,000 in tax credits and people will consider. They have to be more aggressive with their offer in order to have any decent amount of response. $10000 does not even buy you a decent cheap car.

gwbas1c 8y ago

(sob) I just moved for my wife's job. We really like Stowe and wanted to end up close by. (I'm tired of moving and won't move again.)

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

People seem to be taking for granted that this is a good thing. In the short term of course attracting highly paid people is a good thing. In the longer term it's only a benefit if you're the kind of person who looks at Boston and thinks it's a good, highly functional society. Most of northern new England looks at Boston/MA and sees high cost of living, government that micromanages individuals and lots of crime. Having lived in various places in MA (including Boston) as well as NH, VT and ME I'm inclined to agree. Boston has jobs and nothing else. Ask people who grew up in NH, VT, ME what kind of people make the place worse and they won't say baby boomers with backwards beliefs, blacks, or bigots, they'll say "Massholes." Just from living among and talking to people in ME/VT/NH states you'll quickly get the sense that it's not the material difference that make them like the place but the cultural ones. Many people choose to live in ME, NH and VT specifically because they do not have the same busybody, sort of socialist culture (cut me some slack, it's a nebulous and hard to pin down difference) as MA. Trying to be culturally like Boston will be the death of these states. Seriously, they're biggest industry is tourism and part of the selling point is culture and image. Part of the "branding" of northern New England is that it's a land of freedom compared to MA. You can buy beer at the grocery store, light off fireworks without cops showing up and park a project car on your lawn without your neighbors trying to get the town to bend an obscure and irreverent by law to harass you. Whether these differences are material or not doesn't matter, they're part of the branding. If people wanted to go vacation in the woods and wanted to do it in MA they could head west on I-90. If people wanted to go to the beach and do it in MA they could do it on the south-coast or cape cod. I could go on and on and on about how to the people in NH/VT/ME the culture is more important than the money, sure they want money too but you'd be hard pressed to find someone from one of those states that thinks any amount of money or economic development is worth letting the place turn into MA. Yes I know that a lot of you might not be able to relate to this sentiment at all but encouraging people from MA to move to NH/VT/ME is a very thorny subject for most people in NH/VT/ME I get that ~30-something people per year isn't much but it's the sentiment of "we should be like Boston because money" (which is a prerequisite to "we should be an attractive place for people with money from Boston to relocate) is dangerous (yes I know there's nothing stopping people who are from northern New England but suffering through living in MA because that's where the jobs are from taking advantage of this program). I think the focus should be on retaining talent, not importing it. To all the people mentioning that the CoL in Vermont is fairly high for how rural it is, well you can thank NY for that. Upstate NY and VT have their CoL inflated by all the NYC money that wants to have a vacation home or retire away from the problem. Pretty much any "tourist" destination that an upper middle class couple with kids can drive to for a weekend will have this issue. Look at housing land prices in ME and driving time to Boston for example.

amichal 8y ago

I can't resist. We are here with tech jobs waiting. http://www.greenriver.com/jobs http://www.greenriver.com/jobs Edit: On the article: COL is similar to Boston in Brattleboro (for the nice lifestyle that we expect as devs) but in different areas. You need a car for any real transportation and while rents and house prices are less other things are more (internet, heat, etc). There are 3-4 cafes not hundreds. There is a surprising amount of art and theater events and you discover that folks do some amazing things here in the woods. e.g. Parts for the Mars Rovers were made 100ft from my desk. My kids can take circus classes from former Circ du Soleil leads down the street. As a kid I took ski jumping lessons a mile from here from a Olympic medalist. And folks have weird job histories. The woman who runs the stables where my daughter takes horse back riding lessons was a developer on HP-UX in the early days

fringedgentian 8y ago
The grant is only for people who work for a company based outside of Vermont.
- amichal 8y ago
  Sigh... That is just absurd. Our company is domiciled here but nearly all our income comes from outside the state so we provide the same economic benefit. Even if the state wouldn't pay moving expenses I'm sure we would for the right candidates.
funzis 8y ago
I was fortunate enough to pass through Brattleboro once and I have to agree, it is a beautiful charming little town. I would love to go back sometime.

ErikAugust 8y ago

I'm a University of Vermont alum, and worked there for several years after college. The IT (and "professional") economy is quite weak. There's a couple bigger web companies, however I know at least one of the biggest off-shores development. Otherwise, a lot of the professional economy is just satellite of the tourism industry. I read recently the superintendent of Burlington schools (Burlington being the big city in Vermont where the university is located) was traveling to China to help recruit high school students. It's a beautiful, mostly rural place - but it's not surprising these initiatives are being taken.

Isamu 8y ago

SF should offer $10K for residents to move to VT.

josefresco 8y ago

Reading through these comments, especially about Burlington reminds me that everything is relative. Coming from a relatively rural area, Burlington appears to be thriving, tech savvy and a wonderful place for a young person. I went to school there in the late 90's and just recently visited with my kids and was blown away by the growth outside the city downtown. My wife and I both were intrigued at the idea of living there and wondered if the town/city could support our small business. However, reading comments from those used to Boston, San Fran or even those who have lived IN Burlington paints a very different picture. I think if you're coming from a rural area, Burlington is a massive upgrade. However don't expect big-city tech infrastructure or any sort of comparable startup scene if your benchmark are the East/West tech hubs.

MikeGalt 8y ago

I think I'd rather join the "Free State"ers in NH than move to VT.

helios893 8y ago

I have lived in VT my entire adult life, and worked in tech/design. Ever couple of years I sit down and end up doing a comparison to see what it would be like to live in say the Bay area or Seattle. It usually comes out the same. I work remotely and know a bunch of other people who do it as well. It's totally doable (though bandwidth penetration to rural area's still sucks and is highly variable.). If you like Vermont, and can handle long winters it's great place to live, work and play.

AYBABTME 8y ago

10k$ is barely enough to cover the moving cost. What's the incentive here?

NickM 8y ago

I've been waiting to see programs like this pop up for a while. Remote workers are an economic dream for whatever region they end up in. They bring in large amounts of money from outside the area, spend it locally, pay local taxes, leave local jobs available for other residents, and generally put less strain on the local infrastructure since they're not commuting. It's basically a win from every angle, and I'm surprised more cities and states don't already have programs like this one.

subway 8y ago

Looks like this would almost cover half the increase in income taxes by moving from WA to VT.

loeg 8y ago

At 6-7% income tax, you can expect to pay that back in the first year or two.

Moncho6- 8y ago

Hi I’m interested, I work for USDA I can work at any of the agencies possibly remote, I’m fully bilingual I have a MPA. My email ariettearana@yahoo.com

Moncho6- 8y ago

I’m interested I Have an MPA, work with federal government. Let me know 787-517-6858